Monday, December 17, 2007

Should Fundamentalist Christians Have Children?

The other night while watching television with my girlfriend, I saw a documentary on the Yates massacre that happened back in 2002. Andrea Yates killed all 5 of her small children. Yates had the perfect life, until her husband Rusty got her more into a cult-like state and told her that they didn’t need so many materialistic things. So, they moved from a house into a trailer, and from a trailer into a bus. Andrea never said anything. She obeyed her husband, because that’s what the bible tells us to do. She became a complete zombie diagnosed with a mental problem, but, it wasn’t so much as a mental problem as it was her being brainwashed by her radical religious husband.

Andrea was a normal woman when she married Rusty. She took care of her children and was a fun-loving mother who had a head on her shoulders. Little by little, the process of her husband’s brainwashing took effect and she started to literally deteriorate before everyone’s eyes, including her family.

In an article on the CNN website, it tells more…

HOUSTON, Texas (CourtTV) -- Shortly after Andrea Yates methodically drowned her five children in the bathtub, she told an investigator that she did it because she was such a bad mother she had doomed her young to eternal damnation.

“The only way to save them, she said, was to kill them.

Yates' attorneys are now trying to save the former nurse and Texas housewife from a life in prison. (Watch opening statements -- 1:50)

For a second time to a new jury, they are putting forth a case that Yates is not guilty of murdering her children because she was insane on June 20, 2001, the day she drowned them.

"There was no question she was psychotic, not depressed, but absolutely psychotic," defense attorney George Parnham told jurors Monday during his opening statement. Yates had a history of mental illness, Parnham said.

Records show Yates had twice attempted suicide, was diagnosed with recurrent postpartum depression, and had been hospitalized several times for psychiatric care.

When first asked by detectives why she killed her children, Parnham told jurors Yates was unable to "connect the dots" and she had no answer.

But she was put on medication for 24 hours, Parnham said, and she began to tell a doctor -- who is expected to testify for the defense -- the reasons for her unspeakable actions.

Mark of the beast

"She talks about a prophecy," Parnham said.

"These children of hers needed to die in order to be saved," he added, "because Andrea Yates was such a bad mother that she was causing these children to deteriorate and be doomed to the fires of eternal damnation."

Parnham said that Yates believed she had the sign of the devil, 666, burned on her scalp, and she begged therapists to look at her head. What they found, Parnham said, was not the sign of the beast, but scabbing from where Yates had tried to pick away the numbers she thought were there.

Defense experts are expected to testify that "knowing that something is illegal does not mean that you know something is wrong," Parham said.

But prosecutors say Yates understood what she was doing when she pinned each child to the bottom of the tub until they were dead. She knew what she was doing when she laid their lifeless bodies side by side in the bed she shared with her husband and called 911.

"It was wrong," Assistant District Attorney Kaylynn Williford said during opening statements.

Yates knew right from wrong that morning, prosecutors say, and therefore, by Texas law, should not be found legally insane.

Yates calm in court

Yates, 41, sat quietly at the defense table staring at her hands as Williford described how she called her children one by one into the bathroom to kill them.

She started with Paul, 3, then Luke, 2, John, 5, Mary, 6 months, and ended with Noah, 7. She later told investigators the boy asked, "What's wrong with Mary?" when he saw his baby sister floating face-down in water tainted by urine and feces.

Williford told jurors that all the children showed bruises and signs that they had struggled, even the infant girl.

Yates' ex-husband Russell "Rusty" Yates appeared in court Monday with his mother.

Andrea Yates' own mother was also in court, but sat at the other end of the row and did not speak to her former son-in law. As witnesses for the defense, they were ordered by the judge to leave the courtroom and will not be allowed back until they testify.

Rusty Yates, a NASA engineer, told that he remarried earlier this year but says he still speaks with his wife and is very supportive of her defense.

Andrea Yates was found guilty on March 12, 2002, of the capital murder of three of her five children by a jury that deliberated just under four hours. Prosecutors did not bring charges for the deaths of Paul and Luke. (Full coverageexternal link)

Conviction overturned

But Yates' conviction was overturned by an appeals court because a prosecution witness, forensic psychiatrist Park Dietz, testified about an episode of "Law and Order" in which a woman is acquitted of drowning her children by reason of insanity.

Prosecutors suggested to the first jury that the episode gave Yates the idea of how to get away with murder. After the verdict was reached, attorneys discovered that no such episode existed.

Her conviction was overturned in January 2005. Jurors in Yates' first trial rejected the death penalty, saving her from a potential death sentence in the second trial.

If she is found guilty, she faces life in prison. If jurors find her not guilty by reason of insanity, Yates will be sent to a psychiatric hospital and her case will be monitored by the court, which will determine when she could be released.

Jurors also listened Monday to Yates' 911 phone call, placed minutes after she drowned her last child. During the brief recorded conversation, Yates sounds calm, asks for an officer to come to the house, and tells the dispatcher that, no, her husband is not home.

But Yates' breathing is heavy, and she sounds disoriented when the operator repeatedly asks her why she needs police. "I just need them to be here," Yates finally replies. "You sure you're alone?" the operator asks. "No, my kids are here," Yates replies.”

So in order for Andrea Yates to “save her children”, she had to kill them---breaking one of the Ten Commandments. This is why I truly believe that a lot of organized religions, such as being a fundamental Christian is harmful, not only to society, but to themselves as well. How far will they go? How far did Andrea go? She killed her own 5 children, which tells me if she can kill those beautiful kids, she can kill anyone for the sake of anything in the name of religion. She claimed that they weren't developing correctly, due to her absence of being in the mental hospital and that they were destined to spend eternity in hell if she let them live.

How scary is that? And most fundamentalists believe that homosexuals shouldn't have kids. Something to think about...


Nancy said...

I have sat in a fundamentalist church on many occasions with my husband's family. Obviously, I have no idea what other churches of this type are like, but it scares me to see that there isn't a lot of actual THINKING going on...just this particular one. There is also a very political feel to it all. If something feels wrong and my gut is giving me danger signs, you can bet I will be voicing my opinion to my husband and anyone who will listen. My own experience with this church has put me in contact with some very cold, judgmental people who have made my life much more difficult and painful than it used to be. Some of them are plain MEAN.

My question: Where is the love?

DaBich said...

I remember when this happened. Being a Mother myself, I wondered how on Earth anyone could kill their own children??? This type of organized religion is definitely dangerous and should be shut down! That poor woman will have to live with this on her mind the rest of her life.

Jessie said...

And there are people out there who believe her, and think that what she did was right.

It's hard to tell who is more insane in that aspect.

Grant said...

Ironically, her church is probably anti-abortion.

Eyes on God said...

Your blog title is very twisted and misleading. Andrea Yates was/is clearly mentally and spiritually DERANGED. She may THINK she was/is a Christian but a person filled with the Holy Spirit would NEVER murder anyone let alone their own children. To associate her decisions to kill with Jesus is ignorant and foolish. It is the same ignorance that put JESUS on the cross to die for our sins - the religious leaders couldn't stand the fact that Jesus preached the Kingdom of God by faith and that He healed the sick and preached the gospel to the poor.

Please stop defiling the name of Christ by associating His goodness with a woman clearly demonized and mentally sick.

Merlyn Trey Hunter said...

You know, taking some of the doom, gloom, fire and brimstone crap out of the Christian faith would probably help too. In it's inception Christianity was supposed to be a religion of love, hope, and peace. When you start polluting that with threats of a fiery celestial dustbin for undesirable souls, you get sorry crap like this.

Excellent Post!!

~Deb said...

It’s very sad to see people kill in the name of religion. Regardless if you call it insanity, the devil or the fear that your kids will go to hell of they don’t act right------it’s from the fundamentalist type of thinking.

Eyes on God: Why did Jesus die up on the cross? Hrmm. Do you really think it’s foolish to think He died for our sins? You don’t seem to have enough faith in Jesus’ death. I guess He did that for nothing… Interesting.

What made this woman “demonized and mentally sick” was the brainwashing of a deranged psychopath fundamentalist. Think about it…

Thanks for your input!

Terry said...

Keep in mind that Fundamentalist pick and choose when it comes to the Bible. You know, "This works for me so I'll use this. Oh, but this, oh this doesn't agree with my messed up religious agenda so we need to trash that one."


~Deb said...

Interestingly enough, a Christian fundamentalist gave me this message:
"If you're still a dyke/lesbo-sheman-harlot-deceiver, then repent. God will not be mocked."

I think it was out of love, right?

This is the mindset that I've experienced with Christian fundies.


eyes on God said...


Jesus' death on the cross was far from foolish! He died on the cross for the sins of mankind and three days later he was gloriously resurrected.

I can't begin to say what happened to Yates to make her go off the edge. Clearly, her actions wee demonic and not inspired of God. She needs deep healing and deliverance. One thing that is very clear is that Yates was not a Christian. She may have gone to church - but we both know that such doesn't mean she accepted JESUS as her Lord and Savior. It is clear that she was in bondage to a religious spirit, disguised as an angel of light... until she murdered her children and her spiritual allegiance manifested.

Deb, your blogs simply sound like you are tormented. I pray for your peace of soul as you grapple with your homosexuality and the Christian faith. I take great pleasure knowing that we will find him when we seek him with our whole heart.

The God of Scripture is a God of liberty and love, who sets boundaries for own protection. He also gives us a desire for righteousness and purity when we have been filled with the Holy Spirit. He changes us. We don't have to pretend. He makes His glory known in us as we grow in our understanding and faith.

Caroline said...

I could really relate to what Terry said. I find that Jehovah's Witnesses take what they want from the Bible and run with it. But they only take parts, not the Bible as a whole.

Trying to get away from the thinking that I had when I was a JW has been really hard. It's been over 3 years and I still struggle on a daily basis with all I was brainwashed with. I was told that God would not love me if I was gay and that he would not hear my prayers. Thankfully God has proven to me time and time again that they were wrong.

Comrade Kevin said...

Fundamentalism entertains no irony and provides an easy answer for any and every problem in the human condition. Hence the temptation for people who seek answers.

I wonder what HIS motivation for such behavior. And I also question HIS mental state.

DzRBenson said...

Religion should play no role, In determining child birth or raising them


Matt-Man said...

Just think Deb, Andrea Yates will go to Heaven for "doing God's work" while you will be burning in Hell for being a Lesbian. Cheers!!

Ricardo said...

"Should Fundamentalist Christians Have Children?"


And that goes for fundamentalist of any religion. Until they learn to think for themselves they are (for all practical purposes) children also. They are children in need of a team of social workers, shrinks and a slap in the face by the hand of reality. Left to follow blindly, they will pervert spirituality to all sorts of destructive ends like this horrible story.

I don't think any religion was made to be followed in this manner. But the world will always be full of the easily coerced and stupid looking for that one way ticket to heaven.

It's too bad really.

~Deb said...

Fundamentalists clearly put forth unrealistic statistics of why homosexuals shouldn't have children: because of no father figure or mother figure. But, if they look at their own kind, living in a rigid radical religious world, they'll notice that most fundamentalists are usually abusive to their children, you can click here" to see my post on how Bob Enyart, a pastor of one of these fundamentalist churches was arrested for this and how absurd their way of thinking is regarding their views on what's "good" and what's "bad". If a child acts up, it's ok to hit them worse cases, kill the case of Andrea Yates. That's not the only incident either.

Look at those radical Christians who think homosexuals should be killed for their lifestyle. How barbaric!

And to think that these people should be having kids. I speak for those who are extremists.

Ricardo said...

Deb they HATE everyone but their own. It's what attracts them to the movements within each branch of religion. They bond through hatred of others then work backward, using religion to justify it. Every major branch has it and they all feel violence is justified for the most minimal of "crimes." Many of which are not crimes but excuses to carry out hate.

The fashionable group to hate these days are the homosexuals. Tomorrow it will be another group and so on and so on. They can't live without hating. It's the fuel that keeps them committed to following blindly.

With out an outside group to hate, they'd destroy each other.

~Deb said...

Exactly Ricardo. They say it's "out of love" for the sake of "their God". I wonder which God they're worshiping if beating their kids is ok, telling homosexuals that they're "dykes/lesbos who are genetic dead ends who need turkey basters", and those who feel the need to bad mouth those who are different from them.

It's amazing that they even call themselves Christians to tell you the truth!

Ricardo said...

They can't tell their a*s from their elbow without having their religious leader tell them.

They hate, they don't know how to take care of themselves which fueles the hate, then they follow whoever claims to talk to God on their cell phone to do "Gods work" which is to hate this group of people and that group of people.

That idiot Falwell (who's gone and should be forgotten) and Robertson tried to blame 9/11 on people like you! WHAT?!?!?

I'd say put down the crack pipe but since they likely don't do that, I say pick it up and take a long drag. It may actually help them.

trlrtrash13 said...

So many christians, so few lions. Lol.

The Stevo in H-Town said...

Any killing under the guise of religion...izza deal-breaker...


Jim Jones

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