Monday, August 21, 2006

To Answer Your Question, Dani...

This is a letter to Dani. She has dedicated a post about me in her blog regarding my beliefs. I just want to state that my beliefs about sinning are based upon being saved by Jesus. God knew that we would all sin and all of us would fall short. Who is without sin in their lives? I can list a ton, from gossiping, eating shellfish, lying, stealing, taking the Lord's name in vain--even the occasional ("OMG!") as well as sexual immorality. Tons of people (heterosexual and homosexual) have premarrital sex. Do you know anyone who has waited until marriage? There are some, I know that's true, but do you think God would throw everyone into the depths of hell? We're all in this together. We might as well enjoy the journey and love God with all our heart. Why make things so difficult while we're here for such a short time on this earth? And here's my letter to Dani.

Hi Dani,

Thanks for dedicating your post to me. I realize you are concerned for those that are struggling with sin. We all struggle with sin. I will answer your questions accordingly.

”…Do you love God enough to completely trust in Him and obey ALL of His commands about sexual immorality? Or do you love your lesbian partner and your own selfish desires more?Do you really want to be set free from your sin? Or are you completely comfortable continuing to openly live as a lesbian?”

I have obeyed all of His Ten Commandments. I have broken a couple, which I have repented for. Homosexuality is not in the Ten Commandments.

You gave the passage in your post:

“Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither FORNICATORS, nor idolaters, nor ADULTERERS, nor effeminate, nor HOMOSEXUALS, nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God.” 1 Corinthians 6:8-10

But you forget the rest of the passage. Here it is:

”There was a time when some of you were just like that, but now your sins have been washed away, and you have been set apart for God. You have been made right with God because of what the Lord Jesus Christ and the Spirit of our God have done for you.” ~1 Corinthians 6:11

Now the rest of the scripture goes on about sexual immorality with a prostitute; which means {PROMISCUITY}. Those things “are” bad for you. So you can rant all you want about the below scriptures, but keep in mind that what they speak of is prostitution. My relationship is a monogamous one. Big difference. There is love; not lust. Dani, I love God completely and trust in Him. My partner and I worship the Lord together, and have our own relationship with Him. We make God number one in our lives; just as a Christian heterosexual husband and wife. I am set free from my sin, because Jesus saved me…and my partner.

I will continue to live my life openly as a lesbian, due to my love and loyalty to my significant other. It’s ironic that many people will touch upon the subject of homosexuality. And thank you, for those who touched upon the fact that premarital heterosexual sex is a sin too. There are many, many people struggling with addictions, and other sinful aspects that are unhealthy in their lives. We are not to judge. Only GOD can judge.

So then, what if I left my partner of twelve years, and marry some guy, just so “your God” can wash me clean of my sins? Will this mean I will be without sin, since I am married with kids, living a “normal life” as you would call it?

No.

There are other ways the devil tries to get at us. We can’t get away from our carnal and physical nature; which is why Jesus came on this earth----to SAVE ALL OF US! Are we grateful? Or are we scared and uncertain of our faith? I’m certain that I am saved, because I have had spiritual experiences, which I have listed in my book, that lets me know, “I’m okay”, and everyone who is homosexual living a life of monogamy and love is okay as well… That anyone who loves one another, yet aren’t married yet, are saved too. God knows our heart. Evil is hurting someone. The evil nature destroys—which is Satan. He kills, steals and destroys… What does he kill? He kills our spirit. What does he steal? Our self-confidence. What does he destroy? Our relationships with other Christians to make us lose faith.

Someone said in your comments, ”Abandon belief in the Christian God altogether.”

Never.

That in itself is the devil trying to persuade you to believe something else. It’s Satan trying to draw you further from God. God is the same then, now as he is today. I don’t believe God changes; I believe our interpretation changes, and our quickness to judge changes drastically. No one else dwells on their sins; only on others. No one wants to share what they struggle with. We’re all in this together. If you are not hurting anyone or destroying someone’s spirit, God is not going to throw you in the depths of hell. I know this to be true (in my beliefs) due to my experiences I have encountered which were amazing! So no one can convince me otherwise.

What I suggest for you Dani, is to lighten your heart. You burden yourself with the thought of everyone around you sinning. And for your husband, wouldn’t it be nice to have that close bond with your mother—regardless of her being homosexual? Aren’t you sad that you choose not to have a relationship with her, due to her choice by “who” she loves? It’s sad really. So in conclusion, I will leave you with this scripture, which I base my belief system on:

”My conscience is clear, but that isn’t what matters. It is the Lord himself who will examine me and decide.” 1 Corinthians 4

It is the LORD who will judge me. Not an average person who has cult-like beliefs with no room for acceptance. The biggest commandment of all is to love God with all your heart and to love others as you would yourself.

Are we doing any of this?

35 comments:

Zanne said...

Hi Deb! Haven't been around in a while and so was a bit disheartened to see that the "discussion" continues; and then I read your reply. I'm awed by your consistently loving and gracious response to those of differing opinions. Jesus said that they'll know us by our love-you've been a shining example, and I just wanted to say thank you, you've inspired me, and God bless!

normiekins said...

you're a beautiful woman deb!

J R Estelle said...

Bringing it the way my Bronx kids would...'SMACKDOWN' - funny how we (in the general sense) have all this judging going on, yet, it is written that we shouldn't be doing that either.

Here's something that Dani should look into, Matthew 7:1 and 7:2.

"Do not judge, or you too will be judged. For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you".

And take a look at this link

http://worldpolicy.org/globalrights/sexorient/bible-gay.html

Natalia said...

You know I generally sit out all the religious stuff. This Dani woman scares me. I mean, no, I could take her if she attacked me. It scares me that she has such a warped little brain and that she has kids who will have her as a GUIDE!!! Ugh!

-N

Grant said...

I'm going to judge you a doofus if you don't stop obsessing over Dani and move on with your life. Get away from the hate monger and back into Wal-Mart. Obey me, or I'll lick your furniture. >=)

Karen said...

Deb, I'm with Grant on this one. Oh, not about Wally World and licking your furniture, but about ignoring the hatred that Dani is filled with.

Yes, pray for her all you want, but really, don't you think it's time you stopped going to her blog and getting involved with this? Hasn't this been going on long enough? No matter what you say to Dani, she will continue to judge you, and others, instead of allowing God to do what He's supposed to do.

Your frustration level would greatly diminish if you'd just let her be. Yes, I know that's hard to do, but Deb, don't you have enough in your life now? Just pray for her. That's all any of us can do.

Miranda said...

Like I said in my post "God isn't a he or she, God is an energy of love, your soul belongs to God, my soul belongs to God. It doesn't matter what sex it is. It's just that the church has controlled the people for so long. People have to be more open minded..."

I think that says it all. Who really wrote the Bible? Who truly knows for sure? All I know for sure is people like Dani say oh we're perverse and sick, and all fool around. I too am in a one on one relationship now for 4 years. It doesnt hurt anyone. The only reason why it hurts, is because all the Bible pushers are running around telling, the closed minded people its wrong. That in turn is causes everyone to be so unaccepting of the situation, all that causing more grief than its worth. I think that's the problem. They have all been told for so long its wrong, when really its not. IF YOU ARE NOT HURTING ANYONE, but just loving. Homosexuals, as you are well aware of are like Heterosexuals. People, just people. It is also natural instinct. There are some good, and some bad, you are one of the good ones.

So in closing, to my very long comment (sorry) Like many have said, in the end God will know if you are a good person. Only He can judge. Life is too short for all this squabbling with close minded people.

SherBears said...

BRAVO! BRAVO!
I wish I were more scripturally advanced (LOL), I can't even tell you how many times Tev's mom and I have gotten into this argument. She thinks it's wrong, I say go with it. If you love and are willing to commit to that love, does it matter? But at the same time I have to point out... after her divorce she lived with 2 different men without the "benefit" of marriage. Is that not a sin? Or is it okay because she's heterosexual? God made this world out of love. If equality really mattered to Him, wouldn't everyone be a god? Wouldn't we all be perfectly the same? God didn't make the world that way and I certainly don't think we need to love that way. But in the end, it doesn't matter what I think, what Dani thinks, because God is the one who will judge.
BRAVO!
Sher

~Deb said...

On an outlook of every religion and every belief system, it’s amazing how some people will just focus on one particular sin and beat it to death. The only reason I choose to write to Dani today, is due to her blog that was dedicated to me. I wanted to respond to it. No, I will never agree with her beliefs, because her beliefs are based on hatred on those who are different. The fact that Dani and her husband have shunned their mother because she is gay, is enough for me to say they have no concept of what unconditional love is. It’s sad, and I pray for them. I hope one day they’ll see the ‘big picture’ and realize that God’s all about love and forgiveness.

In fact, I would love it if all of you, who read my blog, and who roughly agree with me to pray for Dani and her family. To pray that they find love in their hearts, and to pray that they’re more forgiving and less judgmental. I know you can’t change anyone. Only God can change people…so with that, let’s just pray that God dwells deep inside their hearts filling them up with love----as well as love for others.

Saur♥Kraut said...

Honey, you really shouldn't be feeding into Dani's obsessions with you and your beliefs. It's simply an encouragement and in this case, your best bet is to ignore the behavior so it will diminish or go away. On the other hand, you also know my personal beliefs about this topic. *hugs* Love ya!

Miss 1999 said...

Deb,

I continue to be in awe of your insight every time I read a new post. You hit the nail on the head with so many points:

"There are many, many people struggling with addictions, and other sinful aspects that are unhealthy in their lives. We are not to judge. Only GOD can judge."

How well I know that one. Addiction. I've jumped from one addiction to the next in my life- shopping, chatting, men, excess was the theme of my life for many years. It's by the grace of God that I'm getting myself together.

"It is the LORD who will judge me. Not an average person who has cult-like beliefs with no room for acceptance. The biggest commandment of all is to love God with all your heart and to love others as you would yourself."

I loved that. It's true. NO ONE but GOD will judge us. Dani never has anything to say to that, because she knows it's true. God is the ONLY judge, and as I've said MANY times, my name ain't Jesus, so I can't judge ;0)

*Hugs*

kathi said...

We are told that we will recognize a 'good or bad tree' by it's fruits. That by one's fruits, we will know them. Matthew 7:16-20

Spewing ugliness and hostilities is not of good fruit, and not of God.

All I got. Love you with all my heart, deb. Big hug.

~Deb said...

Saur: Well, I don’t think it’s ‘feeding into Dani’s obsession’ so much as it is to just respond to her…because many people, especially the gay community feel bad about their decision about loving another person of the same gender and being a Christian. I want them to draw near to God---not to run away from Him. That’s my reasoning for continuing this. And yes, I know your personal beliefs, and I respect them; as you do with mine.

Miss1999: Thank you. I think everyone has some form of addiction, whether it’s sex, food, drugs, alcohol or ANYTHING in excess. For me? GUILTY AS CHARGED! My love for wine and many other things I do in excess can be seen as a sin. Who’s without sin? God judges your heart.

Kathi: Couldn’t have said that better. Thank you Kathi.

Jaded&Opinionated said...

One of that girl's buddies left a comment on my blog which I think was intended to incite a heated debate with me. I'll have none of that nonsense. The vile, nasty, aggressive ways they and their "friends" attack those who don't agree with them is nothing short of sinful. I did post a response over at my blog, and I included the following, which is not only VERY clear, but speaks volumes:

"This is my commandment, that you love one another as I have loved you. Greater love has no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends. You are my friends if you do what I command you. No longer do I call you servants, for the servant does not know what his master is doing; but I have called you friends, for all that I have heard from my Father I have made known to you. You did not choose me, but I chose you and appointed you that you should go and bear fruit and that your fruit should abide; so that whatever you ask the Father in my name, he may give it to you. This I command you, to love one another." John 15:12-17

"The end of all things is at hand; therefore keep sane and sober for your prayers. Above all hold unfailing your love for one another, since love covers a multitude of sins. Practice hospitality ungrudgingly to one another." 1 Peter 4:7-9

samuru999 said...

Deb~
You are beautiful, amazing and full of love!
Bless you!

NeverEnough said...

OH my God. I just want to puke, and I'm not even the least bit gay. But my gay friends would find so much horror in Dani!! She's fucking crazy - can anyone not see this?? I am sooo heterosexual and so I see the bipolar psychosis in everything Dani writes. My God, she's a fucking fruit loop! Quit responding to her hatred already.

Breathe Jen. Relax. Positive Energy.

NeverEnough said...

Deb, you are 10 times the person this psychotic NUT could ever hope to be. She sucks at writing, raising a family, etcetera, etcetera. The only thing in life she IS accomplishing is pissing off GOOD people. She is the one is going to hell and is already there in her own mind. Look at the hatred and judgment inside of her already! Pray for her. That's all we can do at this point.

Geek said...

Well said and done. Actually, this response in love is more in line with the teachings of Jesus, as I understand them. I'm still learning so... please take my opinion with a large dose of salt (and a margarita or a beer take yer pick).

Redefine said...

WOW, words can not describe how amazing this post is. You are a woman with great strength and wisdom. You are an old soul that has experienced many of life's struggles and the knowledge to stand tall through it all, an unwavering spirit!

~Deb said...

Thanks guys. I appreciate your support.

In Dani's response to this was in her post about me today.

It reads:

Dani said...

"Deb -

Jesus does NOT save ALL OF US - Jesus only saves those who REPENT! He does not wash away the sins of those who only look for loopholes to justify their perversion.

BTW - if you are so happy and content with your life, why have you been in therapy on and off since you were sixteen years old?

Most Christians I know are not dependant on secular psychologists and prescription medications to get them through anxiety and panic attacks for nearly their entire life.

On the surface, it sure doesn’t look like Christ has done much for you since you continue to live in sin without repentance and you have several mental disorders which have remained with you throughout the past fifteen years. Something just isn't right about all that – maybe you should seek counseling from people who actually know the True God of the Bible instead of some whacked out shrink who just wants to put a band-aid on a much larger problem by pumping you full of drugs?

I'm with Phronk on this one - Deb you should do both:

B) Abandon belief in the Bible as the perfect word of God and the final moral authority.

C) Abandon belief in the Christian God altogether.

And please don't pray for me either! Obviously we do serve different gods and my God won't hear your prayers anyway.

------------------

CJ - God designed sex to ONLY be within a marriage relationship between one man and one woman. Anything outside of marriage is wrong and homosexual relationships needed no clarification when God gave Moses the Ten Commandments about Do Not Commit Adultery.

And no, I do not feel guilty about my past (as perverted and destructive as it was) because I repented and Jesus Christ saved me from my sins - Not so I can continue fornicating and being promiscuous, but so I can glorify God by living an upright life free from sexual immorality."

8/21/2006 3:45 PM


Which I responded back as:

" Dani,

Thanks for inquiring about my anxiety attacks and why I go to therapy. The reason remains that ever since my father went to the federal prison for racketeering, and I witnessed my parents getting arrested for false allegations and other legalities, it was traumatic for me. I have that all in my archives. Yes, I have OCD, and I love the fact that I dwell on cleanliness, so it’s not so much a disorder for me.

Do you think that ONLY homosexuals go to therapy and seek professional help? Dani, you are SO ignorant and it’s obvious you need a better education. Your poor kids—I pray for them that their education is beyond what you’re giving.

Yeah, so only homosexuals go to therapy, get diseases and die early. Hahahaa! That cracks me up, because it truly tells me which one SHOULD be in therapy. I feel bad for you. Does it bother you that there are people out there living their lives happily? It’s obvious you’re neither happy nor content. I will pray for you…and your family.

Therapy to me is useless. I mean, psh-my therapist himself is a quack. I think I give him more therapy than he gives me! He sits there like a fricken zombie and I believe the coffee in his mug is scotch. (Seriously) But all in all, I believe therapy or counseling is great for everyone who needs emotional support.

I am mental. I am psychotic. I am neurotic about cleanliness. All of this is true. But guess what?

I LOVE JESUS!!!

And he loves me. Isn’t that great? My relationship with Jesus has flourished over the past five years, and I am so happy that He has accepted me. Me! ...And you! And everyone else who claims His name!

God bless you Dani, and God bless anyone…who thinks that Jesus doesn’t accept them, because of what a true bigot has brainwashed them to think… so sad…

Okie dokie! Back to the psyche ward!

*Bumps herself on the padded walls*"

8/21/2006 7:39 PM


So what do you think? Only homosexuals and non-Christians go to therapy?

She basically says that anyone who is not Christian goes to therapy.

Not one Christian receives professional help?

I should give her the number to my shrink.

Tense Teacher said...

Wha-?!

I go to therapy in a counseling center in my church's family life center. All of the counselors are Christian, and most of the people who go to the counseling center are Christians. We end each session with prayer.

I have so much I want to say to this, but I'd be "preaching to the choir." So, I'll just sit here and fume and sputter.

Hugs to you, ~Deb. All those anger management issues I've been struggling to give to God seem to come flooding back over me when I'm confronted with stupidity.

Maddie said...

The most important in my life is:

1) God. I love Him with all my heart and talk to Him every day.

2) My partner, with whom I have a monogamous, loving, committed life and I am sooo fortunate to have her AND she loves God. And she loves God first, which is the way it should be.

God loves us and died for us, I accept his free gift of salvation. I accept Him, wholeheartedly and so does my partner, so lay off and stop already with the judgements, Dani. Please. I have a partner whom I love, just like some of you have, love is not wrong. Jesus said, "Love one another."

Jaded&Opinionated said...

Don't give these extremists any more power in your life. You know they're wrong. I know they're wrong. Most of society knows they're wrong. Giving them the power to affect you in any way allows them to draw attention to themselves and to their bigoted, self-righteousness.

Jesus said this:
"You have heard that it was said, 'You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy.' But I say to you, Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you so that you may be sons of your Father who is in heaven. "Matthew 5:43-45

And:

"And when you pray, you must not be like the hypocrites; for they love to stand and pray in the synagogues and at the street corners, that they may be seen by men. Truly, I say to you, they have received their reward. But when you pray, go into your room and shut the door and pray to your Father who is in secret; and your Father who sees in secret will reward you." Matthew 6:5-6

Let them dig their own holes. All we can do is pray that they see the truth, not the bastardized extreme version they think of as the truth.

espresso bean said...

Deb,

You are a wonderful, loving person. The God I believe in couldn't possibly see you any differently. He is a God of love.

Thanks, once again, for being so open and honest.

xoxoxo

Redefine said...

Debbie, I checked out Dani's post. It's very sad, truly sad. She's quite a piece of work, and I truly hope one day she will be set free from her own negative thoughts. She is living a life through a fearful God and all her so called "truths" are based out of fear of God, not her love for God. Stand strong! (But dont let it get the best of you)

Mike said...

Fraggle...you know I adore you...seriously. But dueling with Dani is like dueling with an unarmed person. She preaches hate, follows a hypocrite and joke of a preacher. He and his following have been mostly described and labeled by mainstream society as a cult. She's brain washed and is a lost cause, unfortunately.

say it hot said...

People like Dani are the reason we have such ugliness throughout the history of our existence on this planet. They are fanatics who only care about one thing: advancing their fanaticisms for the sake of power over others. This sort of thing has led to events (in our country and across the world) like:

The Inquisition
Witch hunts
The Crusades
Scarlet letters

These are all religion based and church sanctioned acts of horrific voilence and a degradation of morality. These events, laws, and acts were unsuccessful. Why? Because God did not want them to be. He knows that fanatics are the work of Satan. 2,000 people burned at the stake during The Inquisition is not something holy. The fanatics were grasping at extremes to maintain power over religious "heresy". Anything in extreme is unhealthy.

These events started out with the same kind of disturbing rhetoric and frighteningly unhealthy psychological thought processing that we see in Dani's writing.

It is fruitless to try to discuss anything with her. Even when Deb tried to agree to disagree, Dani couldn't let go. Why? She needs to take the time to do some personal reflection and attempt to figure out why she is so bothered by other people's lives.

For someone who supposedly loves God and Jesus so much, she sure doesn't practice the one most important gift we have been given by God: Love.

Anne said...

Many have said what I was thinking - why try to "discuss" this when it doesn't get you anywhere? People who listen with their HEARTS can have interesting, insightful conversations even if they disagree with each other; if only one person has that open heart, then its a waste of time and energy to engage with the other. Let her go and lets move on to a life of freedom and grace.

Bossy♥'s YOU said...

Deb,
you know I love you..u are my favoirte lesbain..but for the life of me, I dont know why you feel you have to explain or justify anything you do or belive to THAT woman...you are beuatiful, your are funny, you like my slutty shirts...you have to explain nothing to no one.

so there:)

Bossy♥'s YOU said...

i just read mikes comment...and I second what he says...

:)

bigdaddy said...

Deb, It amazing that people can change so many things in their lives but stupid is never one of them. This lady sounds about close minded as the KKK. I am not a very religous person but I was always taught not to judge people because that was gods job. It is funny when people say your not normal, well what is normal anymore? This is not 1940 anymore and just because someone is gay doesn't mean they don't have morals. I am a hetero and I have no sexual morals, when me and my soon to be wife have sex there is nothing moral about it. This women has no live and wants to take it out on someone and you were there. I bet she likes women herself and is in denile?? Deb do what you do, you are funny, smart, and have faith in god. You need not to worry about someone else blasting on you, Fuggedaboudit!!!

LisaBinDaCity said...

I think it's the height of pretension and arrogance to "worry" about someone else's soul, salvation or whatever.

They should look in their own glass house.

jali said...

Deb,

Please spend no more time on this deranged person. She obviously does not wish to engage in a serious discussion. She wants to change you and you are loved, respected and admired JUST THE WAY YOU ARE.

She's similar to any other religious zealot - too stuck on semantics to get the true message. Too stuck on dogma to actually practice the teachings.

I hope that you aren't hurt further by her ignorance.

Please KNOW - you are beloved of God.

Laura Elizabeth said...

Jaded&Opinionated - thanks for posting the quote from John... I was brusing brain cells trying to remember it. The quotes from Matthew as well.

Most Christians I know are not dependant on secular psychologists and prescription medications to get them through anxiety and panic attacks for nearly their entire life.

That's unfortunate. We would all be better off.

Dani, you are a truly hate-filled person. I'm sorry for you and all who come into contact with you.

Anonymous said...

honestly deb, you cannot be that stupid! Christ did not wash all your sins away! N.O.T.H.I.N.G gives you an excuse to sin. im sorry but you have REDIFINED dumb! nd what about all of those sinning heteros, what? they are doing wrong!!!!! Duh! there are many more who DO NOT have sex before marriage. smart people! so what, are you saying that if "everyone" was a sadist or child molestor that that would be perfectly fine with God even if it was firmly stated that that was totally and completely wrong? Religious books are for all time. not for the romans dude. they're dead. game over.