Friday, September 23, 2005

Evil Spirits---Be Gone!

WARNING!
Before you read this post, please keep an opened mind. I’m of Christian faith, and this post holds many beliefs of mine that I am sharing. If you are of another religion, please take this with a grain of salt, or you may want to skip this post.


“Honey, where’s my cream colored blouse that I just got out of the drycleaners?”
“It should be in the pile of the clothes that you brought back, Deb.”

No… Nothing.” I said, fumbling through garments wrapped up in bags.
“Well when did you last see it?” Madelene asks.
I hated when my mother used to ask me that very same question when I was interrogating her for a lost item. That question alone has to be more absurd than, ‘Are you sleeping?’
“Never mind, I’ll just wear this.” I replied, avoiding all arguments regarding that stupid question. I wasn’t about to reply, ‘Well if I knew where I last saw it…………” (You know the drill)

At the age of twenty-three, I thought I would have a little more tolerance for life. I was agitated and way too combative for my own good. Yes, even worse than I am at the age of thirty-one. Plus, how can I start an argument right before going to church? I’ll wait until tonight. I’ll feel much better then.

Madelene and I are both Christians. We wanted to find the perfect church to go to. We didn’t expect to be 100% accepted as a homosexual couple; we just wanted to seek God more, and be surrounded by other believers. We both have our own relationship with God, so it was important that we attend church, in case there was a message that we were supposed to hear that day. We started going on a regular basis, and enjoyed it.

I was a bit taken back when I first started going. I was used to the mundane and monotone voice of my priest at Sacred Heart—which is a Catholic church. I wanted to go to a church where they had enthusiasm for God. I didn’t want to sing the “Our Father” in one single note. It reminded me much like those horror movies, when those Satan worshipers would gather around a circle and sing monotone evil tunes. It gave me the creeps to sit in a Catholic church to hear this very same song, but in different words. The whole church would sing together, like one big evil chant. Ew. If I were God, would I want to be worshipped like this? Give me some music! Give me some dancing! Let’s have a good time here! Of course, bring out the wine!

I recall the first day of attending service at the Trinity Assembly of God. It was a born again Christian church. People were greeting us at the door as if they knew us all our lives.
“Hello! Welcome! How are you?” One elderly gentleman says, holding our hands in his.
This was a bit ‘too welcoming’, but it was much better than Sister Rose snarling at us, because she saw a wrinkle in one of our skirts. These people at the Catholic church were so strict and rigid, that it made the whole ‘going to church’ such a drag.

Each Sunday, we would return. We would all sing, dance and worship for the first half hour, and then for the remaining hour and a half, there would be a sermon from the pastor. He spoke of everyday life, and his topics were very down to earth. Sometimes he would go on a rant that was quite garrulous; however we hung on every word. He was mentioning that next Sunday was a special day for the gay & lesbian community. I looked at Madelene sitting besides me in the pew like, ‘You gotta be kidding!” I was thrilled. A church that finally accepted gays and lesbians?

All week I was anticipated their dedication to our community. I was thrilled that they acknowledged us. We’re not bad people. We’re just people who ‘love’. How can that be a sin? Promiscuity is another thing. In my belief, that’s merely ‘lust’, which is one of the deadly sins. Then again, what makes one sin so much deadlier than another? I always wondered that. What about the Ten Commandments? If homosexuality is an ‘abomination’, then why isn’t it listed on the ‘top ten list’ of commandments? Why isn’t it listed in the seven deadly sins? It confuses me. In the bible, in clearly states that no sin is greater than another. What gives?

Sunday approaches, and we are headed off to church. We sat closer than usual that day. There was a woman speaker about to do this dedication for our community. I was thrilled. As she was speaking so eloquently, she said some really nice things. She went on about how we shouldn’t miss the bus. It’s like coming home, and everyone is gone. You run to the kitchen, and there’s a pot still cooking, bringing aromas throughout the house—so someone must still be home, right? Basically saying, you missed your ticket into heaven. You can't ride on the coattails of other believers.

“Huh?”

She was giving an analogy about missing an opportunity to get into heaven.
“I’m a former lesbian. I suffered for many years living a life full of sin. I knew it was wrong, and a direction that only led to a dead end. I changed my ways, and went into the ministry.”
Okay, now I was fuming. I was actually upset and angry, watching this woman walk into the aisles spewing out words that were unpleasant to my ears. She offended me. Hypocrite! They got you! The ministry has brainwashed you.

“Evil spirits! Be gone! I rebuke you Satan and your homosexual ways!” I can just hear it in my head, all the priests and pastors laying hands on her, trying to get these ‘gay demons’ out of her system. Certainly none of those ‘priests’ were gay. To even commit some sort of malfeasance in their hometown would be a disgrace to the whole community. It’s quite ironic that they call themselves, ‘former homosexuals’. Former? Okay. Isn’t it quite the same as calling an alcoholic, a ‘former alcoholic’? They make it quite clear that you are an alcoholic, even if it has been twenty years since your lips wrapped around a bottle of beer.

These priests, pastors and speakers never sin, right? They never have an impure thought, or partake in any gossip. They’re perfect. They can cast the first stone, due to their righteousness.

Wrong.

We are all human. We’re all inadequate. We all fall short of God’s will. He expects us to be imperfect. Now, if God came down to earth today, and said,
“Each and everyone of you who lied, committed adultery and spread gossip about another, please stand here.”
Now there’s 70% of everyone in the world.
“Each and everyone of you who has had premarital sex, please stand here.”
Okay, there’s the other 30%. Are we all going to hell? Did God put us on earth, to just chuck us down to hell? Our carnal and physical nature weighs out our spiritual side in most cases. If you are a tough cookie and could withstand the test of sin, I commend you; however, not all of us are that strong.

For instance, did you know that eating shellfish is a detestable sin? (Quoted in the Old Testament) So, no shrimp, clams, mussels, lobster or scallops. Forget about it. They’ll serve that in hell for you. Come on!

Read this scripture:

Leviticus 11:9-12 As for marine animals, you may eat whatever has both fins and scales, whether taken from fresh water or salt water. You may not, however, eat marine animals that do not have both fins and scales. (shellfish) You are to detest them, and they will always be forbidden to you. You must never eat their meat or even touch their dead bodies. I repeat, any marine animal that does not have both fins and scales is strictly forbidden to you.

Now, here’s a thought you an ponder on. If you sit next to a woman on the same couch while she is menstruating, you will be defiled.

Read this:

Leviticus 15:19-29 Whenever a woman has her menstrual period, she will be ceremonially unclean for seven days. If you touch her during that time, you will be defiled until evening. Anything on which she lies or sits during that time will be defiled If you touch her bed, you must wash your clothes and bathe in water, and you will remain defiled until evening. The same applies if you touch an object on which she sits, whether it is her bedding or any piece of furniture. If a man has
sexual intercourse with her during this time, her menstrual impurity will be transmitted to him. He will remain defiled for seven days, and any bed on which he lies will be defiled.
If the menstrual flow of blood continues for many days beyond the normal period, or if she discharges blood unrelated to her menstruation, the woman will be ceremonially unclean as long as the discharge continues. Anything on which she lies or sits during that time will be defiled, just as it would be during her normal menstrual period. If you touch her bed or anything on which she sits, you will be defiled. You will be required to wash your clothes and bathe in water, and you will remain defiled until evening.
When the woman’s menstrual discharge stops, she must count off a period of seven days. After that she will be ceremonially clean. On the eighth day, she must bring two turtledoves or two young pigeons and present them to the priest at the entrance of the Tabernacle.

Interesting, huh? Now all of this is taken from the Old Testament which mainly has a lot of scriptures regarding homosexuality.

Old Testament
Leviticus 20:30 The penalty for homosexual acts is death to both parties. They have committed a detestable act and are guilty of a capital offense.

vs.

New Testament
Romans 3:23 For all have sinned; all fall short of God’s glorious standard. Yet now God in his gracious kindness declares us not guilty. He has done this through Christ Jesus, who has freed us by taking away our sins. For God sent Jesus to take the punishment for our sins and to satisfy God’s anger against us. We are made right with God when we believe that Jesus shed his blood, sacrificing his life for us. God was being entirely fair and just when he did not punish those who sinned in former times. And he is entirely fair and just in this present time when he declares sinners to be right in his sight because they believe in Jesus.

I no longer go to that church. I watched two women give a speech. They were together for twenty years. They are ‘former lesbians’ in the church’s lesbian ministry. I watched one lady get up to the podium, and cry her eyes out, as she said she was no longer a lesbian. Her love for her partner was evident. They still resided in the same household. To watch this lady suffer, and be tortured, to not be with her partner in a romantic way was killing her spiritually. She loved God, and she also loved her partner. You can involve God in your relationship—it’s possible.

Madelene and I decided that we will not be tortured like that; however, we will include God in everything we do. He comes first, above all. Without God, we are nothing. I’m just thankful that all the guilt that I had in the past, is gone. Being in love with Madelene with all my heart gives me happiness; having a personal relationship with God, means the world to me.

Remember, whatever it is you’re struggling with, God loves you regardless—and He loves you more than anyone can ever possibly love another human being.
That's huge!







48 comments:

Tara-raboomdeay said...

Deb,

I was fuming reading about the "reformed" Lesbians. They're wrong. God wants us to love. It's a sin NOT to love. Can any Christain honestly believe that God would rather us not to love at all than love someone of the same sex?

Hey guess what people - loving someone of the same sex isn't just about sex. It's about who you can contect with.

I spent more years than I care to admit being tortured over the homosexuality vs. Christianity conflict. I strongly believed in Christianity but knew I was gay. It near ripped me apart.

You ask if one sin is greater than another. YES!! I finally found the truth. The greatest sin is to not love at all!

Cherry said...

Deb - I really liked this post. It was a very good one. I am a Christian too. I will be the first to tell anyone that I am no saint. I believe in God and Jesus. All I can do is lead the best life I can.

I think the whole message of Christianity is LOVE. Love believes all things, hopes all things, Love never ends. It is a very simple message.

But what I don't understand is why I can't find a church that doesn't point fingers or judge others. Homosexuality is a big one for me. I just can't go to a church where they bash homosexuals. It makes me sick to sit there and listen.

Did you know there are like 300 references in the bible condeming hetrosexuals and less than 20 references about homosexuals?

Another thing I can't stand is that I can't find a church that doesnt go all nuts over the topic of abortion. For me, I believe abortion is wrong. But I have a very close friend that had to go through this. As far as I'm concerned, she has already gone through hell. My heart goes out to her because it was a very hard decision for her. And I can't stand these churches that have rallies about abortion. And how abortion is murder. These people need to mind their own business. They have no right to judge.

What stopped me from going to the last church I found is something the pastor said. He said "if you are a believer, you have NO RIGHT dating or being married to an unbeliever". Well, my husband is an unbeliever. And this pastor was basically saying that my husband was a pile of sh!t. And again, who is he to judge? Only God can look into my husband's heart and see how he lived his life.

I believe the bible when it says God is fair and just. And I trust Him. I have to believe He will understand that my husband wasn't EVER introduced to Him until he met me. I have to trust that God will see that he has a good, gentle heart. All I can do is trust God.

So now, I am wanting to share my faith with other Christians, but I just can't find a place that REALLY shares God's true message: LOVE.

It makes me really sad that I can't.

Danielle said...

Found you thur Chrry's blog. This was an excellent post!!! I was raised catholic but do not believe in any organized man made beliefs/religions etc luthern, baptist, catholic. My basic believe is that there is a god out there, whoever he may be for you. you know? have a good weekend!

Tressa said...

TAG - You're It!! Now Answer these on your blog... (Visit my blog to see my answers)

6 Things I Want To Do:

6 Things I Can Do:

6 Things I Can’t Do:

6 Things That Make Me Attractive To The Opposite Sex:

6 Things I Say All The Time:

6 Celebrity Crushes :

6 Strangers That I've Tagged:

~Deb said...

Thank you all for sharing that!

Tara, you're right-----the biggest sin is "not" to love. I like that. :)

Cherry,that was beautiful what you wrote. I'm so sorry that your pastor/priest judged you for being with a non-believer. God brought you two together for a reason. THAT I believe. It's "your" personal relationship with God that matters.

You made another point. Abortion. Yes, I do believe that abortion is technically 'murder'------however, I am pro-choice, because that's what God is. He gave us freedom of "choice"...it's written in the bible. So who are we to judge what other people do with their own bodies? Would I personally have an abortion if I were straight? No, because that's "my choice", and I don't judge anyone for making a decision to abort. For whatever reason they chose to do that, is none of my business.

Thank you Danielle for your comment. A lot of people are Agnostic- (believe there is a higher being out there) and that's okay. Glad you read my post.

I know that this post was a bit personal and religious, but I promise you that you'll never find anything political on here! :)

Thanks again for all your input!

the Bleu Dog said...

In the words of the everso wise Melissa Etheridge....

..."If God made a mistake, then I should die before I wake..."

Tressa said...

k - to tag (or add links) is easy w/ blogger....

when u make a post; type whatever and the part you want to link to highlight w/ your mouse and go to insert link button (3rd from left) copy & paste or type in the url, hit ok. TA DA! then you can see what the html code looks like.

In order to leave html in comments you must type it out...

Also- you can have it open in another window and not the same one your in but let me know when you got the other part down first! ;)

Tara-raboomdeay said...

Cherry,

I loved what you said & feel compelled to comment on your comment. Didn't Jesus spend most of his time with "non-believers"? You don't have to practice Christianity to be a good person. Your priest should know that. Sermons like his are what drives people away from Christianity.

Cherry said...

Tara - Thanks for the understanding. I live in Colorado and it seems like ALL the Christian churches here are very judgmental. I know I don't HAVE to go to church to be a good person. I WANT to go to church, but my heart is just not in it. Maybe one of these days I will find a church that doesn't judge, just one where I can celebrate God's unconditional love.

Tressa said...

I believe some Christians are very judgemental, when they shouldn't be.. because we are all human. But I believe others are just truly concerned for you on where you will spend eternity. God's words don't lie.. because God is the truth and the life. Look God loves everyone but hates sin. All sin is the same; no matter how big or small it seems to us.

Abortion is murder. It is taking a life; just because you can't feel the developing fetus' pain (and only your own selfish pain) doesn't mean it doesn't matter. In that way, you justify it as not being morally/ethically wrong. Every life deserves a chance. Life is not yours to take away - only the Lord.

In the Bible it says do not be unequally yolked with an unbeliever (2 Corinthians 6:14). Think about it, it makes the relationship that much harder when the two of you don't share common ground/foundation. That doesn't mean you have no right being with the person. If Christians didn't associate with non- Christians then how could anyone be saved? The only reason contact should be limited is because it's a lot easier to pull someone down than to pick them up. People fall more often than not... but if focus is kept on the Lord, the believer has strength (especially over temptations).

Yes, God is love and the greatest thing we can do is show love one for another... but He also has an absolute hate for sin (all sin) as should Christians.

And just because you have a personal relationship with the Lord does not mean you can continue to live your life in sin.. (Yes, Christians aren't perfect- they sin too - but we are to then ask forgiveness and our sins become as white as snow because we are covered by his blood. And Yes, we then shouldn't commit the same sin over and over.) When you decided to accept the Lord as your Savior, that He died was buried and rose again.. the old person you were dies too and behold the new creature... hence born again. There has to be some change/s that take place. Your heart should be different. Now I understand that love is about a connection felt/shared and I do believe you can involve God in your relationship just realize that the union isn't blessed by the Lord because that's not how he intended a union to be. Remember, just as you take the good and the bad with your partner- you must do so with the Bible. You can't disregard a part because you don't like it or disagree. Fact of the matter is- it's there. And that's something to think/pray about.

No one can change someone. Only the Lord can. I don't believe once your an alcoholic- you're always one so to speak. God removes your sin, he can change your heart and renew your mind/spirit, he can take away those former desires. Nothing is impossible with God. When you're saved - you in essence do a 360.

In the end everyone will stand before the Lord and each and everyone of us will be judged. That will determine our crowns or rewards in Heaven. And being a good person or doing good works alone will not earn you a place in Heaven. You can't just talk your talk you must walk the talk.. meaning you have to live ALL of it, not just on Sundays. You must Walk with the Lord.

Not just the 10 commandments ought to be our guide. The entire Bible is what and how we are to live by to have a life more abundant and free.

Christians don't hate homosexuals; they hate the sin and they will tell you so because of what the Bible says...

1 Corinthians 6:9-10 (NIV): "Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters, nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God."

Romans 1:24-32:

24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:
25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.
26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:
27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompense of their error which was meet.
28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;
29 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,
30 Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,
31 Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:
32 Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.

This says... God did not create any human being as a homosexual. They are not born that way, just as murderers are not born that way. We are born with a sin nature, until being saved that is. People become that way because they yield to abnormal acts or lust. Even if we believe and do not give our lives completely over to the Lord (meaning we fail to yield to His laws) then we are worthy of death. Does he want to see that happen or do that- No, Of course not! That's why His life, crucifiction, death, burial, and resurectment had to happen. God can heal all of us and bring us out of the bondage of sin.

Romans 12:1-2

1Therefore, I urge you, brothers, in view of God's mercy, to offer your bodies as living sacrifices, holy and pleasing to God—this is your spiritual act of worship. 2Do not conform any longer to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Then you will be able to test and approve what God's will is—his good, pleasing and perfect will.

You know the saying "Truth hurts" well if this does, then it must be true! God's word is true and He loves you and wants the best for you (for all of us). Now, sometimes it's very hard for us to understand or comprehend God's ways and the fact of the matter is - His ways are much higher than our ways and his understanding passes all our knowlegde (Isaiah 55:8, 9). Meaning - we are not going to understand why everything happens (or why He says things as so) and we need not pick apart and try to reason or come up with our own theories and such- we are to live on faith. Do what is pleasing to the Lord and that is to live by His word - The Bible (with no omissions).

Christianity isn't just about praise and worship of our creator, it's about living in truth and love. We are to preach, teach, and reach others so that all would come to know the saving knowledge of our Lord, Jesus Christ, and not be lost.

Now God gave us free will (choice) so after hearing, we either reject Him or invite Him. You cannot be a "luke warm" Christian. With anything in life - it's either one way or another, off or on, light or dark, wrong or right. Otherwise, anything else is a lie.

Blessings!

~Tressa

Laura said...

Hi Deb,

Thanks for the comment on my blog! Sorry it took me so long to get back you. Been a busy week. You have a great blog and some interesting posts! This one is great and something that I very much agree with.

Take care and my best to you and Madelene!

Cherry said...

Tressa - I just wanted to comment a little bit on your comment...

One thing I see in this passage:

1 Corinthians 6:9-10 (NIV): "Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters, nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God."

It says the WICKED will not inherit the kingdom of God. How can you be wicked if you are truly saved? Christ died on the cross so that whoever believes in him shall have eternal life.

As far as the homosexual thing goes, I had premarital sex before I got married. I believe I am still going to heaven.

I do not believe my views are lukewarm, they are just the complete opposite of what most Christians believe. I may be a black sheep, but the Lord is still my shepard.

~Deb said...

Well Tressa failed to display the entire scripture she wrote....

Let me finish it...tell me what you think---AND I appreciate Tressa commenting, but I wonder if she can cast the first stone?

1 Corinthians 6:9-10 (NIV): "Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters, nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God."
-----continues on Tressa------
11 There was a time when some of you were just like that, but now your sins have been washed away, and you have been set apart for God. You have been made right with God because of what the Lord Jesus Christ and the Spirit of our God have done for you.

MEANING: He saved us from our sin.

Are we clean from sin just because we go to confession? Okay, yes, confess your sins to God...He forgives. But---Jesus forgives eternally.

I believe God goes with what is in your heart---He knows your motives. Just because someone can sit in a pew every Sunday morning like clockwork, does not mean they are saved or gives them a one way ticket to heaven.

If you love God with all your heart, (whatever religion you are) ---for me I am speaking as a Christian---- and you're faith is strong, and you involve God in your life, He sees that.

He knows your heart.

So what Tressa believes to be true is- you have to be the perfect person. God doesn't expect that of us.

In Romans, which you quoted, that is speaking of premiscuity---when they had orgies and the entire place was unruly.

I'm speaking of love between two people. How can that be wrong?

The one thing we need to do is not throw stones, not preach what we do not practice, and not to be so quick to judge anyone. It's just simple as that.

God knew that we would keep sinning, He knew that as humans, we are all inadequate, that is why He brought His only son, to die for us on the cross, because of our sinful nature.

Thank you all for sharing your thoughts, and Tressa, thanks for your input too- very informative!

:)

Net's word said...

Deb, once again - your honesty is so inspiring to me. I agree with you on the position of Loving and I am a Christian too. My God lives within me, and you and everyone else. I left organized religion many years ago (that included the Roman Catholic church) because I kept hitting my head and heart on the ceilings of judgement. I knew that a God of Love could not deny anyone who that same God has created in his/her image!!! We are created in the image of God - and therefore we create also - with our thoughts. Where thought goes, energy flows and results show. If I judge anyone from my limited perspective (ego self) I have turned away from my God of Love. When I left the Catholic church at age 27 years, a kind priest said to me, 'continue your search for the truth and trust no one that tells you that they hold the whole truth'. I have felt blessed numerous times to have had my farewell conversation with that particular priest. I wonder if he is still with the church?

I read a magazine called Science of Mind and find that I share a spiritual connection with many wonderful others - of all faiths.

God Bless you and Madeline -

Exciting Post - thank you!

Tressa said...

Deb - No, I never said you must be perfect. We aren't going to be -none of us- we're human and that old sin nature still plays a part even though we're saved. I'm just saying we should try and strive to be more like Christ (to not sin). Pride and rebellion make us fall short of this purpose. That verse in Romans said men left the natural use of women for men and vice versa and it was worthy of death. And yes, no matter what religion: if you accept Jesus in your heart then you will be saved.

However...

Cherry - Only the Lord knows for sure but I would say that if you are truely saved, your life will change. You should have a new heart, new desires, new ideas, and a new direction of a divine (not sinful) nature. So how could someone go on blatantly living their life in sin knowing it was so and displeasing to God? I think the "do not be deceived" part means... don't fool yourself. Meaning... you can't keep doing what you're doing and expect God to forgive you (over and over)? Can you? Reminds me of the boy who cries wolf. Someone doesn't ask forgiveness because they're homosexual, right? I mean why so when it seems natural to them. But the Lord says it's not! God tells us in His Word that by nature we are "...dead in trespasses and sin;" (Ephesians 2:1) and that we are "...alienated from the life of God..." (Ephesians 4:18). Just as a body without physical life is declared physically dead, so anyone who is separated from God is described in the Bible as spiritually dead. As long as we remain spiritually dead, we cannot know God.

I'm not judging anyone.. or casting any stones. I am not perfect and I'd be the first to admit it! This is what Christians believe and they only tell you out of love. Just like when your parents tell you what you should or shouldn't do and you go "yeah, yeah." In one ear and out the other - but (as you probably have learned) they are wiser and so we should listen to them and they only tell us these things because they love us. Well, that's what the Lord does or tries to convey. "God, The Father."

Maybe you will and maybe you won't inherit the kingdom of Heaven. And if so, I don't believe homosexuality will be rewarded... just because it 'reflects' love.. Why not? Because it's sin (and sin is sin) and why I say you won't inherit Heaven is because He is sinless and cannot have sin enter in. Clear as day, He says it's wicked.

I believe Christ pulls at your heart strings, saved and unsaved a like but especially the saved when you are doing something wrong (sinning - "missing the mark"). Sin eats away at the heart. It destroys people, families, cultures, and earth itself. Our outwards actions only mirror our true inner condition. He knows the "real you" better than you yourself do, because he sees "the inner person" and all your secret thoughts and motives.

Proverbs 23:7 "For as he thinketh in his heart, so is he..." Think on the things that are true, good, honest, virtuous, and wholesome (Philippians 4:8).

Accepting Him is not enough. You need to grow in the nuture and admonition of the Lord. Someone can't just get saved and live their life like hell the rest of the time. Sin seperates you from God. Until you acknowledge that and ask for forgiveness, you will never be "free" of sin and it will lead to Hell. The Lord is...not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance (2 Peter 3:9). God can give you the power to conquer your sin by spiritual self-discipline. That's why He died and was resurrected- so we could know Him and conquer sin. NOT- so we could keep sinning but know Him! Reckon yourself dead to sin.

Romans 6:6 "For we know that our old self was crucified with him so that the body of sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves to sin—"

Romans 6:12 "Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body so that you obey its evil desires."

Romans 6:13 "Do not offer the parts of your body to sin, as instruments of wickedness, but rather offer yourselves to God, as those who have been brought from death to life; and offer the parts of your body to him as instruments of righteousness."

Romans 6:23 "For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord."

Revelation 3:21 "To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne."

Net's Word- God is Love but Detests Sin! Christians are only messengers of the truth. We hold the truth because we believe. God's word is not a lie. The whole truth can be found in His word. If you don't listen to someone telling you so, you can read it! The Bible is God breathed.

Madelene said...

Hello everyone! This is Madelene, I would like to take this opportunity to say "greetings" to everyone. Especially to my beautiful, love of my life and soulmate, Debra. I think that this was a very very important subject that is extremely sensitive in nature to most people. I am a christian as Debbie is also. We are not religious, but have a personal relationship with Jesus Christ. There is indeed, a difference. He died for me therefore I am saved and look forward to the day I will be in eternity with Him. I am not perfect, nor will I ever be. But I do know that it is a constant progression to where He wants me to be. I love Debra so much, she is part of me as I am part of her. She also loves the Lord and has dedicated herself to His service, using the many talents He gave her. What a great joy! He knows our love is real and that is not wrong. The Lord is first in both our lives and everything is next. I am so thankful for Him and for Him sending Debbie to me. That was no accident. Well, sorry to go on and on but this was soooo interesting I had to put in my 2 cents.

I loves you Debs, great blog!

Tressa said...

Deb & Madelene: I am glad that the two of you are happy. And I like hearing He comes first in both your lives. I admire the fact that not only are you faithful to eachother but to the Lord. That's very hard to find in today's world. I wish you both the best always, just had to voice my concern/belief. You are both lovely people. And bottom line: the Lord knows your heart. God Bless! ~Tress

Kristina said...

One thing: you said no human is perfect, but I don't think homosexuality is an imperfection.
I loved this article.

Net's word said...

Well, didn't this post generate a lot of activity?! Let me go on and on for just a bit (after all it is Deb's wonderful blog site - not mine). To Tressa your truth and your interpretations are for your understanding - God reveals herself/himself to us as we are open to understand. Jesus showed us the way to Christ Consciousness - it is an inner journey that can be shared - through love and kindness. We align ourselves with our godness through prayer, meditation, asking to receive - to grow into who we truly are. Deb, thanks for creating an environment that allowed this telling exchange.

~Deb said...

Thank you Tressa, I definitely can see your point of view, and I do respect your beliefs.

Thank you all so much, for taking the time to share your thoughts on my post. It's more than appreciated! :)

--------------------------
--------------------------
To Madelene, my love,

Thank you for commenting (first comment yet on my blog!) I believe God brought us together for a reason, and I am so grateful that you and I share that faith together. That's the thread that holds us together, on top of the love we have for one another. Like I said to you when we were first dating till now, I seriously think God threw one of His angels down on earth, into my life; which is you.

You're the love of my life, my soulmate, and in God's eyes, I can't see how that can be wrong.

Love you forever!

Tressa said...

Kristina - To God, homosexuality is unatural - it is an "imperfection".

Net's Word - It's not MY truth; it's GOD's truth.

Jesus said "I am the way the truth and the life; NO MAN cometh unto the Father BUT BY ME." (John 14:6)

This doesn't just mean that His life should serve as an example for each one of us... it means that when we are saved, our hearts are 'converted' or forever changed and we have a new found focus and purpose for life. It isn't about US. It is still all about JESUS!

Jesus isn't about improving ourselves through "Christ Consciousness" (The REGENERATIVE and RECONCILING aspect of the force of pure Being and the Soul Essence within each one of us). We are changed almost instantly because God now lives in us - we aren't the same person. We want to live to please Him, worship Him, and share the gospel (in truth and in love) with others. Being saved doesn't mean -BY FAR- about learning to grow into who you truely are.. it means growing with/in the Lord. We strive to be more like Christ and not the best we can be. Because the best we can be, is nothing without Christ!

Forget about yourself. We are saved by grace; redeemed by His blood. We are His, we were bought with a price. Our lives are not our own. We are not God, nor ever will be.. or even on the same level as Him. You think God needs us? I think not... it's just He loves us so (even when we are sinners). This isn't about a journey; this is about who is your Lord and Savior, life ever after and where you will spend it.. on the golden streets of Heaven or in the firey pits of Hell. This is a battle; a spiritual and supernatural one involving principalities. The war is over our souls! Like I said, it doesn't matter how good of a person you are or grow into being; what matters is Jesus is Lord of Lords, King of Kings and He reigns in your heart above ALL. You allegiance is to Him and not to yourself. Who will you bow to? Certainly not yourself. What special thing have you done? Nothing that comes close to what He did for us. Christ died so that we would not perish but have everlasting life. We couldn't make that happen even if we tried....

Don't live for yourself, live for Christ! AMEN.

ttsparks said...

To Batlangelia,

Please read these scriptures & maybe you can get a clue.

Ecclesiastes verse 11
The more words you speak, the less they mean. So why overdo it?

Matthew 7:5 Stop judging others, and you will not be judged. For others will treat you as you treat them. Whatever measure you use in judging others, it will be used to measure how you are judged. And why worry about a speck in your friend’s eye when you have a log in your own? How can you think of saying, “Let me help you get rid of that speck in your eye,” when you can’t see past the log from your own eye; then perhaps you will see well enough to deal with the speck in your friend’s eye.

You seem to preach a lot. Being a pastor at a church myself, I am surprised at how many brothers and sisters are judging one another. Encourage one another--don't tear one another down.

Have you no sin in your life? If you can say that there is absolutely no sin in your life, then we can accept the novels of your widsom.

Seems to me this is the very reason why a lot of everyday people get discouraged and afraid of going to church. People like yourself don't make it easy.

Stop judging, and treat one another with respect. I'm sure your life has some imperfections--it's just that you are not revealing your own downfalls---which we would not judge.

Peace to all

glo said...

Deb ...

I'm a sometimes visitor to your blog which btw, I enjoy reading.

I'm a little confused. You say you're of Christian faith. Did I read somewhere that your parents are Jewish? Did you convert?

I hope whatever your choice, you are happy.

~Deb said...

Hi glo,

No, my parents aren't Jewish. They are Catholic, however non-practicing. They do believe in God, & raised me Catholic. I even went to Catholic school, received communion, confirmation, etc... but I found myself towards Christianity moreso when I got older.

I tried the Christian churches, but they were very judgmental, and all they could talk about was how homosexuality would put me into hell. It was a negative atmosphere for Madelene and I, so we switched churches where they believe that we are accepted--due to the love of Christ.

ttsparks:
If my own 'human' parents can accept me, then what makes other people think God can't? He's our father and loves us.
And yes, I have been discouraged, leaving churches due to people with their own flaws who are quick to make judgment towards us. We did need encouragement and more acceptance, as any human does. Each one of us fall short, that is why God brought His only son on earth, to take away our sins. We are never without sin, because we live in the physical nature,---the carnal vs the spirit. He knew we couldn't do this without His son dying for us.

So, I believe that through Christ, we are saved. Our hearts and motives are all seen by God. My relationship with God is strong, and I do believe I am right with God due to my faith in Him.

Thank you for posting your comments all! :)

Anonymous said...

Ya'll do me a favor and visit this site regarding your debates on homosexuality and the bible.

Maybe this will clear a lot of this mess up!

http://www.truluck.com/html/the_bible_and_homosexuality.html

Tressa said...

ttsparks - ok that was rude.. definitely not a display of love or restraint. I'm not over doing anything. I believe everything I wrote was meant by God for you to read.

I'm "judging" on a spiritual level; I am bringing forth God's word. (The parts you don't like... but tough!)
1 Corinthians 2:15 "The spiritual man makes judgments about all things, but he himself is not subject to any man's judgment".

You think you know the truth but you only hold half truths. You want everything to be rosey and ignore what God's word says... but you can't continue to do that forever. God won't let it be so, He will be the one to bring judgement upon you - Not I - and that I can imagine would be much worse... Remember, God is a loving God -yes- but Hates sin! Do not try to skate around the issue!

"But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction." (II Peter 2:1)

Is this not clear? As a leader in a church, I will pray for you and the people that make up the body. John 8:47 "He who belongs to God hears what God says. The reason you do not hear is that you do not belong to God."

Brothers and Sisters living for Christ should not tear down but encourage, you're exactly right! But I cannot ignore the fact that this is sin that needs to be straightened - thus saith the Lord.

Anon- has things twisted. And I will rebuttle against false doctrine (2 Tim 2:16-18). Isaiah 8:20 "To the law and to the testimony! If they do not speak according to this word, they have no light of dawn."

Yes, I have sins in my life but I recognize them as such and ask for forgiveness when I do so. However, I make the choice. There are many sins that can be avoided. Homosexuality though, is a blantant constant living in sin in which you do not ask forgiveness for because you believe it to be right in YOUR MIND but you do not see through GOD'S EYES! Wake up!

The scriptures are from God (inspired). Ultimately, What you do is between you and the Lord. Judgement and wrath will be from the Lord. I am just reinstating His word so don't hate me (as I don't hate you) start to hate the sin! Galations 6:7-8 "Do not be deceived, God is not mocked; for whatever a man sows, this he will also reap. For the one who sows to his own flesh shall from the flesh reap corruption, but the one who sows to the Spirit shall from the Spirit reap eternal life."

READS:

The Bible And Homosexuality

Is Homosexuality A Sin In The Bible?

Exodus Organization: Freedom from homosexuality through the power of Jesus Christ

Madelene said...

Wow Batlangelina you seem to be very judgmental and full of hate.

You said that God hates the sin. God is not of hate & God does NOT hate. You need to seek God. You need not to judge others which you seem to be doing.
Why don't you display a flaw of your own for us. What is a cross that you bear? Tell us what you struggle with. Tell us which sin you have the most difficulty giving up. Share with us, as we shared with you our struggles, as Deb has displayed herself as a homosexual. You just sit there badgering these people for being gay when you haven't even displayed your own faults.
Can you throw the first stone? Answer that for us. Are you perfect?
If homosexuality is an imperfection, so is the whole world. The whole world is full of sin, that is why Jesus died for us on the cross. To take away our sins.
Whoever is without sin, casts the first stone. We'll never be perfect like Jesus.
Do you realize that you are attacking two people who love one another unconditionally, with God's scriptures, which are interpreted differently by everyone?
As Deb's post states, it's even destable to eat shrimp, lobster, clams or mussels. Do you eat any of this? That in itself, is "detestable" to God. Do you ever say a white lie? Do you ever tell your husband, "Oh you look great honey!" (when in fact, he needed a little tweekin')??????
Do you think immoral thoughts occasionally? Do you use birth control? Do you ever say, "Oh my God!" That in itself is a sin.
I'm sure you are a wonderful woman, and possess great values, but I think the matter of judgment is for God.
Let's not preach what we don't practice. Yes, let's share God's good word, but let's not judge.
I don't think what ttsparks said was rude. I think maybe he was trying to get a point across.
You even stated in one comment that "God doesn't need us." Do you know how sad and terrible that sounds? We are his children and you are indeed, tearing down...not encouraging.

You then quoted a scripture,
"John 8:47 "He who belongs to God hears what God says. The reason you do not hear is that you do not belong to God."

Read the whole scripture!!! They were trying to KILL Jesus in that section of which you RANDOMLY chosen. It's people like you who close their eyes, and point to a scripture in the bible, and then throw it at someone who sins. This applies to MURDERERS. Do you actually think we are muderers?
Please, everyone if you have a bible, read John 8:31-58 and NOT just verse 47. She is telling you ONE sentence out of a story.
It's a shame that as a Christian, you are very discouraging to people who have faith in their Lord.

Debra and I love the Lord. We pray together, make Him first in our lives. Again, like I said, we are in no way perfect, but we try to keep Him first in our lives.

So I ask of you, when you throw a scripture out like that, please read the entire story of the book of John, which is about Jesus' life.
I hope that you do not think this comment was crass or rude, but your comment upset me. It made me think how many people are really judgmental, yet say they are Christians. I don't judge you. I don't hate you, I don't disrespect your beliefs, but please don't disrespect ours.

Thank you.

Madelene

Tressa said...

Madelene:

hmm... get a clue? nahhh... that's not rude in the least bit!

I understand this is Deb's blog and I am not disrepecting your beliefs.. I am just saying mine.. but obviously, it hurts and I can't and will not apologize for my beliefs.

I am not being judgemental - I'm telling you what God has said! I am not full of hate - I do not hate you nor anyone. I hate the sin, all sin (which includes homosexuality) just as God does. I practice what I preach.

Yes, this whole world sins but there is a difference between those who are Christians and those who are not. We are more aware of what is right and what's wrong yet we have free will. If we do not keep our focus on the Lord, we fall into sin (because of the sin nature we are born with). Yet, Christians know better when they have sinned. They know not to live in sin. They know enough to ask forgiveness.

I have said over and over that I'm not perfect! I have been known to be of glutton - hence my dieting or change in eating habits. No, I don't eat seafood, never have. I will swear (when upset or angry) but I know it's wrong and try not to... in these things I ask forgiveness and I ask the Lord for the strength to see me through these things and overcome. And I know this is possible through Him.

As awful as it sounds, God doesn't need us. Why would someone who is perfect and without sin need us? Think about it- it's only out of His unconditional love for us that Jesus died.. He does not want anyone to go to Hell... God loves the sinner but not the sin! But know there are consequences for our sins punishable by death- so be aware!

John 8:47 DOES SO apply. Jesus was telling them in verse 31 "If you hold to my teaching, you ARE REALLY my disciples. Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free." They did not like hearing all of His truth so they wanted to murder Him. Being homosexual is not holding to his teachings.. I'm sure if Jesus came to you and said Madelene, "Homosexuality IS wrong and it IS a sin. Why did you not obey me? Did you not hear or read my word and why then, didn't you apply it to your heart?" Come on, would that not make you a bit enraged and even think about murder lest committing it? Hence people saying "I'm so mad, I could kill". They saw Jesus as a threat to their way of life and therefore wanted Him murdered. Of course, it would be a bit different today..

Frankly, You are not submitting yourselves fully to God's will for your lives but to yourselves. You are not heeding God's words like you should.

Look, we have a difference in opinion. So there is no point in continuing with this. I've said what I have to say and you've heard it. That's all that I can do that God calls for.

I have told you these things out of love just as our Lord did. If you don't believe me (and hence, the word of our Lord), that's fine. There will come a day when your eyes will be opened.. I just hope/pray it won't be to late. God's will be done. AMEN.

azariah said...

NOT JUDING OTHERS / “CASTING THE FIRST STONE”

This scripture is REALLY being used out of context.

What does God mean by Judging?
(1) When we claim WE know someone worthiness—or internal “goodness” or “badness”
(2) Determining Someone's Fate
(3) Enforcing Punishment

#1: Personally Determining Someone’s “Goodness” or “Badness”

Now, in addressing #1, we all seem to agree that only God can be the fair Judge of what is inside someone’s heart. I have seen that used a lot in retaliation to Tressa’s posts.

How did Tressa do this?

I did not hear her say that you were awful, terrible, deplorable in God’s eyes, etc.

Where did she say you were “bad”?

Just because she said she feels the behavior is wrong, you then jump to she judged your overall value/worth to God?

Common, there’s a BIG difference!

I understand this is an emotional subject for you. But I feel you took something that was obviously unpleasant for you to hear and contrary to what you want to believe, and turned it all around.

Do you realize that while attempting to depict Tress as judgmental, YOU called her a person with a “heart full of hate” or something equivalent.

I think commenting about the condition of her heart WAS putting yourself right up there with God, and as we established—ONLY HE KNOWS ONE’S HEART—and that includes Tress.

And where did Tressa very say that being a homosexual was a WORSE sin that what other things humans do? Someone mentioned that a lot, and again, that is not even reading what she was saying—that’s erroneously adding to it.

#2: Determining Fate

Not only did Tress not even come close to attacking your worthiness to God, as you are all implying she did, but she NEVER implied you wouldn’t go to heaven because of your homosexual acts. So in my opinion, Tressa fails this criteria of “Judge” as well—she never personally determined your salvation!

#3: Enforcing Punishment

Furthermore, a Judge punishes, and I don’t recall Tressa trying to enforce a punishment upon anyone here! Again, everyone is referencing the stoning scripture and again—all out of context!

Jesus stopped a STONING. Do you think He would have stopped someone from offering Mary constructive advice on how God wants us to live? Again, BIG DIFFERENCE.

From this scripture we get two things: (a) We already discussed this—but that we are all sinners and no one is above the other and (b) we are not to seek vengeance or harm someone because of their sins when we are sinners ourselves. IT DOESN’T MEAN WE ARE NOT TO CORRECT SOMEONE.

Did Tressa physically attack someone here I don’t know about with rocks or bats or something? Did she try to play God & actually PUNISH someone somehow for being a sinner? Or, did she merely offer you verbal advice?

Common now. Look at the three criteria for Judgment & you’ll see that Tressa did none of them.

Now, let’s get right to it--- you guys are saying that judging is telling someone what a certain action is wrong. That merely being informative if casting judgment.

How do you teach your children that violence is wrong? How do you tell them not to steal? If you say to your niece “You shouldn’t lie”, then by YOUR criteria you are sitting in judgment instead of offering advice for living.

Listen people, if this were what JUDGING mean, no Christian could share ANY of God’s own guidelines that He so CLEARLY wanted us to get out there to others! How would we ever teach proper living according to The Word?

Even the disciples showed loving correction when necessary—and were instructed too.

God gives us the right to know & TEACH right from wrong.

Now…

REGARDING THE MULTIPLE REFERENCES THAT GOD WANTS US TO LOVE

Again, I disagree with the interpretation of this that you guys are using here.

First, I agree that God wants us to love one another. But please, put that in the right context!

You yourselves said that “LOVE” doesn’t mean “SEXUAL RELATIONSHIP”.

So how, how, how can you say that God commanding us to “LOVE” one another equates to it’s OK to have “Homosexual Relations” when the love God is discussing isn’t of a physical / couple context? You are comparing apples with oranges.

God means we are to CARE for all people. It doesn’t mean to be in physical relationships with someone of the same gender, or with children, or a married person, or anyone you want and say it falls under “loving your neighbor”! IT MEANS BEING CARING! COMPASSIONATE! MERCIFUL!

Again, you yourselves said love and the sexual relationships we humans have are separate. So PLEASE stop using the comment to “love” as if that is the permission you need to do things that God said not to do!

If you stick to the facts, you’ll find you have no Biblical scriptures supporting being homosexual. It is not sticking to the facts to substitute God’s context of “LOVE” for your own.

I know you will think I am evil for voicing something different then what you want to hear. Respond how you must, but I needed to do my part in trying to help you understand. I will pray for you and God Bless.

Tressa, honey, I am sorry you received such replies.

piu piu said...

hey deb-

interesting post...erm, and comments!

i love reading your rants, and I'm neither gay nor christian. But what is more important than anything is just being a nice, healthy accepting person of EVERYTHING and EVERYONE. ok some heterosexuals i hate. some whites. some christians. nothing to do with anything other than what they offer me or society in terms of their value as a human being. you have encountered some real freaky shit because your a lesbian, and man it shocks me...and amuses me too.

all i can say is, u know the score. you are a good person.

i watched a tv programme the other day, and this guy was saying that maybe all we were put on this earth to do was exist briefly and beautifully, the way butterflies do. i love that idea.

topsyturvy said...

Tressa is just jealous because she is probably in a bad STALE marriage with a man when she can't have the fullfillment of a woman!
(LOL) Now that's funny. What you two do and the love you have is probably more than what any married couple has. Probably more than what Tressa has with her husband. She's jealous. That's what it boils down to! Quite ironic.

Tressa, get a life b*tch and leave other people who are happy alone. Leave your judgments at the door, and your half ass scriptures back in the bible because you cannot back it up like Deb can.

Thank you Deb for sticking up for your community. Other people want to shoot us down because they're not happy with their own lives, so they meddel in other people's business. So sad for that lady huh?

Anonymous said...

Hi Deb,

You recently left me a comment on my blog MakeYourselfJourneys, and by the way thank you for your response! The intriguing part of this is that I was checking out other blogs randomly on tht same day and came across yours, and of course read the entire blog entry for that day which was awesomely written! I'm not sure how sporatic the "Next Blog" option is but I have to say I am completely in awe that we were viewing one anothers blogs on the same day. You seem to have a large fan base and many experience to share, so I'll for sure check out your thoughts when I can. :)

Peace
T

~Deb said...

Hey piu! Well, I like hearing all different views on stuff, and people's opinions/beliefs. It's what makes the world go round, right? I appreciate people taking the time out to put their beliefs on my post, even if it is against mine- we all have our different views on life/religion/lifestyle, etc. I do respect that.

Topsy- a bit harsh, I think that Tressa is just making a statement due to her strong beliefs as a Christian, and I really think she is sincerely trying to point Madelene and I in the ~right~ direction, however, I feel that I am in the right direction because of my experiences. (hint---it's in my book!) I'll have an Amazon.com button to purchase it. Many non-believers have turned into believers due to my book, and hopefully it will bring people closer to God! :) My only wish! I'd like THAT to happen more than money in my pocket. To turn one person to God is worth a million in my pocket.

And T, your blog is great, next time you log in, do it with your sign in name so people can tap into your website.

T's blog is www.MakeYourselfJourneys.blogspot.com . I enjoyed it a lot.

For everyone who commented, I know that in your heart, you know what's best for you. I thank you for sharing it with me.

Tressa, you're comments are always welcomed here. You have a different opinion/belief system than I do, and "that's okay". For me, and from the ""interpretation"" that I get from God and by reading the scriptures, I get a total different meaning. Understanding and discernment is one of the greatest gifts that God can give to us. I pray for that every single day. It's worth more than gold.

Thank you all! :) God bless!!!

Tara-raboomdeay said...

Hello Batlangelina,

You are right. Being a follower of Jesus Christ and doing His will isn't easy.

I should know. I'm guilty of living a sinful existence for many years. The Golden Rule is to love one another. But I wrote it off as nonsense for the uneducated & unsophisticated. The truth was I was afraid of being judged by others for obeying such a rule. It would set me apart from my family, co-workers & friends. This rule required too much sacrifice. I'd be putting myself out on a limb. And for what? We're here to succeed; not love one another, was my thinking.

But God trully loves all of us like a good father and needs us to do His will. He knew I would never be happy not living by the golden rule. So He sent me a message: You're supposed to love. I made you the way you are for a reason. Stop being afraid of being a Lesbian. Just trust Me.

It wasn't a voicemail or an email or snailmail. But I heard Him loud & clear and knew it was time to mend my ways and put Him back in my life. I'm not going to debate what is said about homosexuality in the Bible. All I know is that I was sent a message, loud & clear. Life would be a lot easier if God didn't make me gay. But I now accept it as a gift and my life is much richer. I'll NEVER doubt Him again!


Tara

Romeo Jensen said...

You're 31???

SHUT UP!!!
OMGaaaawd ur sooooo Haaw... okay I was gunna type hawt but being that you're 31 (like my aunts age) ummm lets just say you're effin' gorgeous!

As to the Lesbien stuff and God... I feel that anything between two consenting adults and hopefully a really good cam corder with automatic focus for close ups and wide angle shots is up to them.

I do know the Bible is at odds with it but you prolly know all the verses and their counter verses and what not and... dint Jesus like tell the crowd if they were without sin they could chuck some rocks... well Deb... This Just In...

I'm NOT Without Sin!

shocking I know
*puts down rock and hugs ya both*

Love ya... thanks for stoppin' bye... peace out your gorgeousness
(oh what the hell... ur an effin' hawtie even if you are 31)

Romey/bounce

Geoffrey Hirschfeld said...

I came across your blog by sheer accident, and I totally empathise with your journey. I grew up in the traditional Episcopal church, and because of my ex-fiancee and a few other reasons, I converted to being a Christian of the Catholic persuasion(we are all christians, just by different names :) ). I find comfort in the seriously deep spirituality that it provides, and as a quasi-educated person, I love the rich ritual and tradition(for me, this is comfort). But Benedict is going on a gay hunting trip in America, and I think that this is wrong.

To me, spirituality is spirituality. If you and your significant other have found love, more power to you, as God has blessed you richly with finding someone that you are compatable with. It is one thing to be celebate and feel that you have a gay/lesbian sexual orientation, and within the church, to be celebate and be of this inclination for the priestly functions should not be an issue. I know, I know, something created by man to get in the way of people worshiping God. But if you take a vow, shouldn't that be honoured?

But that being said, I am sooooooo sorry that you have found sooooooooo much hate within your local churches. My grandfather(God rest his soul) used to say that churches were not "Havens for the holy, but hospitals for us sinners". It shouldn't be a firing range, but a haven of love and respect, Just as Christ has respected us in His love.

And this whole bit about being gay as a choice-crap. It happens all of the time in the rest of creation. Being of the "horsey' persuasion, I know of several very well-bred, very valuable stallions that refuse to mount mares. But yet, they will more than willingly mount a gelding or another stalion(amusing thought-I hear this a lot from my straight lady friends that the best looking ones are always gay-HA!)

At any rate, take care-you are blessed with love. Always remember that, and I wish you success in finding a spiritual home. Unitarians? Quakers? Or even the Epicopal church?

Peace be with you!

ttsparks said...

It's a matter of faith, love and loving one another. It's about treating others with respect.

Faith.
John 11:25-26 I am the resurrection and life. Those who believe in me, even though they die like everyone else, will live again. They are given eternal life for believing in me and will never perish.
John 15:21 Those who obey my commandments are the ones who love me. And because they love me, my Father will love them, and I will love them. And I will reveal myself to each one of them.

The ten commandments. You have not murdered. It doesn't list homoexuality in the ten commandments, and in the book of John, it says, "If you obey my commandments and love me, I will love you."

You & your partner have faith.

Faith
Matthew 17:20 Jesus said, "I assure you, even if you had faith as small as a mustard seed you could say to this mountain, 'Move from here to there,' and it would move. Nothing would be impossible.

These things you have. God will bless you for being so faithful.

Thank you for throwing such a positive post out there.

God bless

Tressa said...

topsyturvy - ok, was the bashing really necessary? fyi, i'm with a wonderful man. and again, i am not "judging" anyone.

all others - i'm not looking to change you; only the Lord can do that. Until then you will believe what you want, do what you want, and say what you want.

deb - i'm glad you are open enough just to read my comments; many aren't. after all, i'm doing what i believe is right in MY heart by sharing... i never said you have to agree.

Cherry said...

Deb - I just wanted you to know that I see Christ's love in your words. It is obvious He is in yours and Madeline's hearts. It is obvious that you both love Him.

And in my opinion, this world would be a LOT better place with people like you and Medeline in it.

:)

Mimi in NY said...

How do we ever really know God´s Will? We don't, but we can kind of muddle through and get the vague impression that if there is a greater being out there, he's looking out for all of us and promoting the essential values of peace, love, honesty.... yeah, all that crap. Without exception. I honestly don't think he's sitting there choosing lesbians to go to Hell over paedophiles. From my ignorant, atheist view, wasn´t he mean to be all forgiving? And the Almighty? That means all those sitting at home interpreting his words with zealous hatred and condemning others to purgatory on ´his´ordering, well they're being a little bit hypocritical. I don't think we can know what he thinks until we're face to face with him. Only wish I believed in him. Although then I might turn into a bigoted, gay bashing prig. And people wonder why Christianity has a bad name. Concentrate on the things we can change: World poverty, the accountability of our government, bringing up our children to love and respect aeveryone, regardless of color, religion or sexuality. It´s so easy, and yet there's so much hatred and venom going round. Weird really.

~Deb said...

Backtracking to lovely Mr. Romeo,

I don't know whether to smack you silly because you basically think I'm an old bag here, or give you a big ol' hug as well, becuase you're such a cutiepie!

Cherry- that was very sweet of you to say, I appreciate that a lot.

Mimi---gay bashing prig? I'm sort of liking you as a non-believer! hehe. :)

Thanks for the comments!

Scarlett O'Hara said...

Deb, this post brought tears to my eyes...I found you thru Tressa's site.

God Bless You!

Hugs to you and Madelene. God loves us all. I don't go to church anymore, but I know what I believe.

~Jan~

Kris said...

Batlangelina- I'm confused; would God put us on this earth to suffer? To deny ourselves the right to love? Do you think homosexuality is a choice? Don't you think, given the possibility, homosexuals would orientate themselves towards members of the opposite sex? It's the easier, if not plain easy life. Think about it; no intolerance, discrimination... etc. Now what exactly is a sin in your mind? Being attracted to people of the same sex, or actively putting one's self out there as a homosexual, having gay sex? Why would God design humans that are attracted to other humans of the same sex if it would then be stated as a sin?God is all loving, and I personally don't think homosexuality is an obstacle in that love.

Anonymous said...

Our awesome God would never reject people who are in love with one another. As long as you keep God priority, have faith and love for the Lord, that's all that matters. Love is the most important thing in life. Unfortunately, we don't show enough of it sometimes.

God bless you two!

EMMA said...

Remember, whatever it is you’re struggling with, God loves you regardless—and He loves you more than anyone can ever possibly love another human being.

Doesn't this say it all people? Deb, what you wrote couldn't be more true and I commend you for writing it. There are so many valid points in your blog that even the most narrow-minded fool couldn't argue! Well...

All I can say is that I attened church school every Sunday until I ws 14 years of age. Thereafter, I attended chuch and consider myself a good Christian even if I am a gay woman.

this being said, never did I once doubt that God loved me. Who created me or 'us', anyway. If being gay was so evil, homosexuality would seize to exist. God would not allow it. I do believe that wholeheartedly.

During church and church school I was taught that God was an, "all-knowing", "all-forgiving" and "all-loving" God. I think that covers all bases, even where some doubt may lie within certain people. How can anyone argue that

I am happy and content in my own skin and I know God accepts me and would never punish me for something so out of my control. Who would choose to be a minority. This is not a choice, but a way of life. God knows. I wish more people could, but that's their misfortune.

Thank you for the awesome read, Deb!

Love ya!

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Dani said...

Deb - It's been over 8 months since you posted this. You should re-read the comments, especially Tressa's. She sounds a lot like me, don't ya think?

Tressa ~ WOW - Excellent Comments!!! I couldn't have said it better myself. Thank you for proclaiming the whole Truth of God's Word.

I particularly liked this:

“You know the saying ‘Truth hurts' well if this does, then it must be true! God's word is true and He loves you and wants the best for you … Do what is pleasing to the Lord and that is to live by His word - The Bible…Christianity isn't just about praise and worship of our creator, it's about living in truth and love. You cannot be a "luke warm" Christian. With anything in life - it's either one way or another, off or on, light or dark, wrong or right. Otherwise, anything else is a lie.”

None333333 said...

A dissenting opinion here...I can understand your not wanting to hear what those women had to say...but it seems like you are being pretty 'intolerant' towards them.

I don't understand why people who want to get a sex-change are welcomed into the GLBT community with open arms, as are formely 'straight' individuals exploring same-sex relationships. But when someone identifies him or herself as ex-Gay, the claws come out and that person is denounced as a phony/in denial/can't possibly be happy. It seems really mean-spirited and hypocritical.

Like I said, I can understand why you would want to go to another church but I question all the negative energy being heaped on 'ex-gay' identified people by individuals who purport to be all about love and tolerance.

Also, the arguments about sin you are making just don't make sense. I mean, no eating shellfish is no longer an issue and yes sin is sin and yes we all struggle but is that an excuse to slam everyone that believes certain sexual behaviors are identified in the Bible as sinful? Yes, we need to be loving and tolerant of individuals and support them in their struggle but when it comes to the church officially condoning sexual sin just to make people feel better about themselves, then we are talking about a whole different issue.

Sin is a bondage and Jesus Christ offers us the hope of freedom from that bondage. He's not there to pat us on the back while we remain chained to self destructive addictions and patterns of behavior. While I realize you would not include a loving same sex relationship in this category what worries me about this type of reasoning is that individuals are trying to create an 'identity' out of their individual bondages and are seeking inclusion in the church instead of being delivered from those bondages. This is pretty much a slap in the face to Jesus Christ.

Thanks for listening and God Bless.