Genuine new life offered by God’s grace doesn’t come from accepting who you are; it comes from accepting who Christ is and dying to your sinful passions and living your life in the power of Christ, through whom all sin is overcome.
The Apostle Paul recounted the same struggle with his own pattern of sinful behavior in Romans 7:15-25, pushing him to the end of himself: “O wretched man that I am, who shall deliver me from this body of death!”. That's my story, that's your story, that's all who come to Christ story.
I realize that our friends, the homophobes, who attack viciously and use the Bible as a weapon may not get this: We live in a world with so many unwanted children. Even before I was a Christian, I never could tolerate abortion--life is precious. Yet children live here without parents or are put in foster homes because their parents cannot care for them. I am waiting for the onslaught, but here is my view: gay couples with a long term commitment to each other are doing God's work when they adopt children. I've known many gay couples who adopt children no one else will go near--kids with HIV, crack babies, kids who are psychologically troubled, kids born with disabilities. That is an act of mercy and goodness. We live in a severely overpopulated world. If as Christians, we refuse to endores abortion, then what happens to children who are born into hellish circumstances? I have seen gay couples rise to the occasion again and again. Leviticus was written for a different time. We are all too fruitful and we multiply to a point that the earth will soon not be able to handle the population growth. What is wrong with couples, be they straight and childless, or gay and childless, to adopt the unwanted? I see Jesus in such actions. I don't expect those who have made up their minds on this issue to see it my way. But I want this to be said.
Mark: What sinful behavior? Homosexuality isn’t a sin. Being promiscuous is. I have my own sins to contend with, just like anyone else. Just because I have a partner, doesn’t mean I’m doing anything immoral in God’s eyes. Can you explain why the flamingos are gay if they didn’t consciously “choose” to be gay? Thanks for stopping by!
Enemy: You’re absolutely right! Leviticus was written in a different time, which we are no longer bound to the law. They can’t use that against us. It’s impossible. They can’t change our minds, and we cannot change theirs. I think the more they try to attack us, the more we see how unhappy these people truly are.
Prime example that it's not a "choice" as these other fanatics would say it is. I wonder if these flamingos woke up one morning and said, "Hmmmmmmmm, I don't believe I want to be a heterosexual any longer"? Mark doesn't choose men because he was born a heterosexual. He didn't "choose" to love women, did he, and he's just in denial? One never knows!
Hey Mark, put your bible down for one moment and answer me this- did you choose to be straight?
Funny thing, my little niece who is 4 yrs old wears boys' clothes, wanted her hair cut short and will only play with boy toys. She says to never call her a girl. She gets offended when you do. Now, we have no clue if it's a gender identity confusion or that she simply feels more comfortable looking and acting like a boy. Does it mean she's going to be gay when she gets older? I have no clue- 'cause sexual orientation has nothing to do with sexual preferences, however, I don't believe she "chose" this---I believe she was like this since she was born. I was the same way when I was her age. I seriously don't believe it's a matter of choice.
75% of Amy's family (on her father's side) are gay. What explains that?
Who in their right mind would want to choose being gay? It's a harder life, a harder battle and a difficult road when there's so many hateful people who just can't act civil towards one another if they aren't just like them.
Sorry I didn't touch upon the flamingos. I was just preparing for another onslaught of sin accusation. There has been a lot of scientific research that shows that many species have same sex mates, even among dolphins whose intellect curiously reflects our own. And Loud Mouth is right: it isn't a choice. It is orientation.
Awww so cute. My friend and his husband adopted a little girl about a year and a half ago and they are in the process of looking for a little boy to adopt this year.
They have such a happy family. I love spending time with them.
"Can you explain why the flamingos are gay if they didn’t consciously “choose” to be gay?"
Okay, I'm just saying: If you stopped by this conversation and only saw this one line without knowing what the conversation was about, you would laugh out loud really hard.
:-) Yes, I know that was random. Can you tell I'm avoiding work?
Hahaa!!!!!! Ah geez, it's been a long day. Just saying that sentence regardless if you read the entire thread sounds completely ridiculous! When's happy hour?
enemy of Republic says I realize that our friends, the homophobes, who attack viciously and use the Bible as a weapon may not get this:
Did you just call me a homophobe ? and in the same breath attack viciously? and NOT use the Bible, as if there is another source for absolutes or right and wrong? Shall all of the unsaved humanity gather around your feet while you mutter truth without the Bible? When we believe it, what shall we say is the source then?
Of Course you did, that's why you are a willing fool. You would do well to understand exactly what Christ says about such willingness to disregard His word. btw, give me your definition of homophobe and I'd be happy to spoon feed you the error and lie you worship.
A Swine's ass aka loud mouth ask Hey Mark, put your bible down for one moment and answer me this- did you choose to be straight?
Like I have said more than once here, 'straight' nor 'homosexual desires' are the issue. Please write that down Loud mouth aka piglet. It is about God's holiness, and that alone. You either accept it, or deny it. To make a human desire Holy before our God just because we have it, is sleeping, eating, and living IN Satan, not God. Hence, Christless. So is asking any man not to use his Bible for direction. i.e. Hey Mark, put your bible down for one moment.
When rational men and women gather here and actually believe, attribute, and celebrate two birds being what they call "gay", should make any follower of Christ shudder in sadness and despair. Nothing new however, the OT is filled with such men and women in a fallen folly. Eternal death is at stake people. It amazes me in 2007 it only takes a couple of Birds and one stolen egg, to muff the lost.
That was sooo cute! I have not seen this flamingo clip before, that was very interesting. I have seen other animal life partners such as penguins and dolphins. Carlos and Fernando are great and so is their little chickee. Can I have them, pleeeeze!
If you were truly so passionate about "saving the lost," I'd think you'd understand that nobody accepts your beliefs when you instult them. I think you relish the idea of winning a war of words more than the idea of convincing anyone of your truth. I find THAT sad. If it's really a matter of eternal life and death, treat it with the gravity it deserves and do away with the name-calling. You're a grown man. Leave it on the playground already.
Seriously. If we're talking about what's holy and appropriate: You think God expects you, Mark, to draw anyone closer to Him by calling them a swine's ass? Do you really? Answer me that. (Not that you will; you seem to neatly skip over any confrontation of your attacking style.)
Well, Deb, I just came by for a friendly visit and see that Mark got offended--no, Mark, I was not thinking of YOU in particular. The world does not revolve around your belief system and your dogged insistence that some scripture is more important than other. No, I didn't quote the Bible. In your estimation, that must make my views less acceptable. But I am deliberately avoiding it on this page as I see the Bible used too often as a way to hurt people. I will not participate in that. If you think that I think you are a homophobe, you certainly can deny it. But why should you care when I am so clearly in the wrong and you are right? You shouldn't care what I think. I don't interest myself with your opinion either.
I do love it how no one here will touch that whole thing of why if bunnies and shrimp and shaving are also offenses against this so-called god, we have only chosen to respect his thoughts on homosexuality and not the other things. Hmmmm. Makes one wonder. But then again...I don't. I know why.
Also, did you know that there have been many studies that link homophobia with homo erotic feelings? That those men who were self-proclaimed homophones were the ones who showed more excitement at the sight of homo erotic scenes? Very very telling indeed.
It actually doesn't surprise me that a male flamingo would be gay every now and then ... after all, the poor things are forced to be PINK since birth!!
Homosexuality is not a sin but condemning it in God's name is, which is one of the many reasons why organised religion is failing to meet our spiritual needs.
I am a married mother of 2 and a lapsed catholic, just to put my comment in perspective.
Natalia - this is the very reason why I assume that this Mark character is a closet homosexual. He is on this blog all the time. You have to wonder why. Is he really that upset that Deb's a lesbian? Or is he really upset that there is actually somebody out there that is right with God and yet still homosexual?
That's what I think about all these people crowing about homosexuality. Why would someone devote their lives to it? I think they are just jealous that other people are living the life they wish they could if they were honest with themselves and had the balls to do it.
It makes me really sad for them that their desires have to be put away and all the bitterness comes in hatred for those living their lives to the max.
Research by US psychologist Prof. Adams of the University of Georgia suggests that 80 percent of men who are homophobic have secret homosexual feelings.
In Prof. Adams's test, homophobic men who said they were exclusively heterosexual were shown gay sex videos. Four out of five became sexually aroused by the homoerotic imagery, as recorded by a penile circumference measuring device (a plethysmograph).
Prof. Adams's research was published in the prestigious US Journal of Abnormal Psychology in 1996, with the backing of the American Psychological Association.
Prof. Adams says his research shows that most homophobes "demonstrate significant sexual arousal to homosexual erotic stimuli", suggesting that homophobia is a form of "latent homosexuality where persons are either unaware of or deny their homosexual urges".
These findings support the theories that homophobia (fear and hatred of gayness and support for antigay discrimination) is often indicative of repressed, self-loathing homosexual feelings; and that many homophobes subconsciously use anti-gay attitudes as a smokescreen to disguise their own homosexuality.
I’m not too sure if Mark would be considered a closeted gay, however his concern for others who are homosexual is extreme. A lot of radical Christians focus a lot on the gay and lesbians, however they also miss important issues, like adultery, murder, stealing, etc. What about those sins? If they know they’re not going to change somebody’s views, then why bother? I think it’s just the way Mark’s religion guides him to.
And if he is secretly gay, he’s resisting the urges for his creator. (Which is a great thing if he believes that it’ll save him.) But, I don’t think he’s gay – regardless of studies and what have you. I joke around with him and ask if he’s secretly gay, but I think he’s just openly judgmental. (bwahaha) ;)
I will never go to Mark's blog again either cuz when I did not quote scripture to him he called me an athiest.... or maybe it was someone else on his site. I can't remember now.... I have better things to do with my time.
Anyways... honestly guys I don't understand the gay lifestyle and Deb you know that from previous conversations I have had with you. But I agree with all of you when you say why would you choose a gay lifestyle with all the pain and judgement you face daily!! I can not help but agree with that.
I live in a small, bible belt town... I love Jesus and all I know is I am not going to judge you. That is God's job....
So with that said.... I am gonna go. Blessings to all of you.
Mark, to draw anyone closer to Him by calling them a swine's ass? Do you really? Answer me that. (Not that you will; you seem to neatly skip over any confrontation of your attacking style.)
Brood of vipers ring a bell? I have no desire to draw anyone anywhere ms lisa. I will however proclaim God's word all be it imperfect to sweet innocent ears like yours. The rest is between those who hear and those who refuse to hear, and God.
Mark, come out of the closet already my friend
And if he is secretly gay, he’s resisting the urges for his creator.
Kinda like a child molestor Deb? Please get a clue dear. I have many sins I battle daily. Same sex attractions is not one of them but no more or less important in my walk and relationship with Christ.
Since ya'll are kind a dense, I'll repeat myself again, please at lest think about it.
It is about God's holiness, and that alone. You either accept it, or deny it. To make a human desire Holy before our God just because we have it, is sleeping, eating, and living IN Satan, not God. Hence, Christless.
Take 2: He does take cheap shots at people when they disagree with him --because as we all know, he's always right...never wrong.
Mark: I was stating that I didn't think you were. I was saying, "if" you were and was holding back urges for your creator, than that was great- but I wasn't saying you were gay.
You get a clue my friend. Obviously you do have some deep seeded issues. Maybe you are closeted since you got so defensive over that one, when I was actually assuming you weren't.
Mark: Well then, I appreciate your honesty with listing out your sins. Thank you. I'm sure we all struggle with our own crosses. This makes you human.
Loud mouth: It's all good...It's just that he needs to know that God is all forgiving and that I feel he shouldn't give into all the guilt. Guilt and shame are all emotions from the devil. Just focus on God. Isn't that our target here? God sees everyone's heart and everyone's struggle.
Guilt and shame are all emotions from the devil. Just focus on God. Isn't that our target here? God sees everyone's heart and everyone's struggle.
Well said Deb! I pray however you do not confuse guilt with true repentance. Christ was our way, our only way, but not for the unrepentant. Pride must not be the wall that sperates us from Him. True repentance actually brings joy in Christ saving us. It is daily Deb, daily.
I'm not repenting for being in a loving relationship with my partner. I do not believe homosexuality is a sin, Mark. The bible believes that promiscuity is a sin, heterosexual OR homosexual. Maybe if you can get it in your head that we do not see eye-to-eye, then you wouldn't have to come on here to defend the homosexuality issue. It will never change my beliefs.
Mark--I don't like your Christ. I don't like your Jesus. The God you portray is hateful and cruel. He is also not biblical. Think about Jesus's prayer before the Passion; he thought of his flock and worried for them even though he was about to suffer untold agonies. What is it about love that you hate so much? And if you dare attack me, which I am sure you will, you shall only prove my point even further. No wonder people can't stand Christians.
I think if you put a few of these males that come here and preach hatred in a room alone, there will be a lot happening. And I don't mean fighting. Spread the love!!!! ROTFL!
"Brood of vipers ring a bell? I have no desire to draw anyone anywhere ms lisa. I will however proclaim God's word all be it imperfect to sweet innocent ears like yours. The rest is between those who hear and those who refuse to hear, and God."
You know nothing about my ears, Mr. Mark.
I'm not talking about proclaiming God's word. We as Christians are called to do that. I'm talking about proclaiming God's word IN LOVE, which God commands you to do and which you do not do because of your nasty attitude. Perhaps you should be a little less concerned about what God thinks of you proclaiming His word (since you obviously have no problem sharing your thoughts) and a little more concerned with how you show the love of Christ to your fellow human.
Think about Jesus's prayer before the Passion; he thought of his flock and worried for them even though he was about to suffer untold agonies. What is it about love that you hate so much?
What is it about Christ's love do you have a hard time dealing with ms Republic? Is it His commands? His holiness? Why did Christ die? So Deb can say two men expressing their love for one another may be called Holy?
You know better Ms Republic, but you prefer to be liked in this world then speak the truth to her, even though you could probably do it much better than I do. That is NOT love. Heaven and Hell are real. Both are eternal. I'd start yelling at those you love before it's too late, no? But please don't do it the way I do. Do it with real love, no cursing or name calling. They will listen much better that way.
:)
Deb says I'm not repenting for being in a loving relationship with my partner.
That's the exact same thing a pedophile said to me while in prison. Hummm... Christ and God's word was not his priority either.
I think if you put a few of these males that come here and preach hatred in a room alone, there will be a lot happening. And I don't mean fighting. Spread the love!!!! ROTFL!
Natalialard, Should you not be in Chicago at the Leather and Men fest?
Oh, so just let me know when the authorities are going to raid my house and take away my partner and I for living together as a loving couple. That's priceless Mark! Shows true intelligence.
Mark's sins: lust hate murder <--who?? you killed someone? lieing <--lying? stealing hypocrite <--this one is ongoing adultrey not honoring my parents <--oooh, you made it in the top ten commandments!!! idolatry taking my Lord's name in vain<--rebel! etc... (AS he stated...)
Well, if you murdered someone as you stated, then who should be the one in jail right now?
Hmm.
Do you want this to be a judgment battle or do you want to just agree that we are all sinners and fall short?
And no, homosexuality is NOT a sin. Promiscuity is. Big difference.
I think you relish the idea of winning a war of words more than the idea of convincing anyone of your truth.
Yup. That pretty much sums up how I feel about Mark too. But I'm "weak skinned" and "would rather not offend anyone with the Gospel", according to Mark.
"The Gospel according to Mark"...AHAHAHAHA that pun was SO NOT INTENDED. (However, I have used that sweet little remark before and it was intentional. heehee)
Mark knows people very well. He is all knowing and can sum up your whole life story from a few blog comments. He's JUST that good. **Snicker**
Deb...I'm being induced on Monday...this kid is still hanging out in here! He gets his walking papers Monday though..heehee
Who woulda' thunk that a video about pink flamingos would rile up the bible thumpers, Sandalina???
AWEEEEEEE!!! You're gonna finally have your little one in your arms! He/she's too comfy in there---that's the problem! I hope everything goes well and that you're feeling okay. I'm going to miss you girl! Let me know how you're doing when you have time. ***WHEN*** KEY WORD THERE! ;)
I understand your drift, but we disagree. I read God's word and there is nothing in it that convinces me that homosexuality of itself is wrong. Nothing. Promiscuity, immoral acts as Paul would call them--that is different. But there is absolutely no evidence that a gay individual, orientated as such, which implies that God intended such for his creation, is sinning in a loving, committed relationship. And God is bigger than sending Deb to hell for being gay if that is your argument. Jesus didn't come to change gays into heteros; he came to defeat sin and death. Deb is covered by the blood shed at Calvary NO MATTER WHAT. I cannot tell Deb she is sinning when I don't see it. And even if she were, don't I have sins of my own to worry about first? But she isn't living in sin. Trust me, Mark, I don't care about being liked. I don't like to get rude unless I must, and I am capable of such. But I don't see things your way. I don't think I can be clearer than that.
Am I missing the fest??? Awww bummer! Mark, get your toys and let's go! :) You are obviously more in the loop about these parties than I am. Bless you!
Mark said: "But please don't do it the way I do. Do it with real love, no cursing or name calling. They will listen much better that way."
uh.. isn't TRYING to get people to listen the point of presenting a message to begin with?
Has nothing at all to do with being liked.. has everything to do with presenting opposing views in a way that doesn't personally attack and belittle your opponent. If you want people to listen to the truth, you don't start out by name-calling and belittling. THAT is something that Jesus NEVER DID, and that's not a debatable point. It's fact.
Mark knows people very well. He is all knowing and can sum up your whole life story from a few blog comments. He's JUST that good.
ahh thanks sandalina! I knew you loved me. I really appreciate that. God's speed with the yard monkey. :)
Deb, Yes murder, hate in the eyes of God is murder. is that new to you?
enemy of da republic, I read God's word and there is nothing in it that convinces me that homosexuality of itself is wrong. Nothing.
May I refer you to your Bible. You shall not lie with a male as one lies with a female; it is an abomination.
Oh that's right, that no longer applies, god changes His mind, and Christ was not God in flesh, nor do any non red letters in the Bible apply becuase the NT gospels and letters were wrtten by Men, not God.
As you repeat the same "OLD" scripture my friend, let me repeat this...
Levticus - OLD - we no longer are bound by that law
Romans - Promiscuity and orgies ----women got bored with men and vise/versa for switching purposes. Read into it, don't read the text, understand the bible.
And again, to me, homosexuality between two people who love one another like a husband and wife is NOT a sin. And-----get this Mark-----I'm HAPPY! :D I really don't care what sin you're struggling with, because I know that God has forgiven you. As long as you focus on God and know that Jesus died for your sins, everything is okay. Stay focused on Him, and not on other people of this world. It's that simple.
Children need two parents who love them, and will be there to support them, no matter what. So what if it happens to be two men, or two women? I was raised by my mother, and father-- as well as my Aunt Judy (my mom's oldest sister). To some people, it would seem strange that I've always had a bedroom at her house, and treat her as if she's my mom, too, but to me, it's nothing strange. She loves me, and has provided well for me, as well as my parents my entire life. Although, they're all straight, it's still two women and one man in my life-- which to me, is no different than two women who are lesbians or two men who are gay.
Whims: Thanks for stopping by! Hope to see you more often.
Miss 1999: Hey Christy! I think in a loving, nurturing home, a child can get great care regardless if they’re straight, gay or a one parent household. When there’s child abuse of any sort, verbal or physical, then that can cause detrimental harm on the child’s psyche for the rest of his/her life. Thanks for your thoughts!
Wes: Take it up with CNN! (hehe) Do you think I made that video myself???
I really don't care what sin you're struggling with, because I know that God has forgiven you. As long as you focus on God and know that Jesus died for your sins, everything is okay. Stay focused on Him, and not on other people of this world. It's that simple.
Oh.. ok Deb, then having my way with...insert anything your flesh, mind, world desires would be ok with Christ? After all, I do focus on Him a lot. I really do. really, I do.
Could you define sin for me, just in case I forget? I've read about it in the Bible and also repentance? Is all that stuff just for other people?
Levticus - OLD - we no longer are bound by that law
What law am I bound to other than the man made laws of the country/state I live in? if any Deb? I just wanna be sure, ya know, all that eternal stuff.
And-----get this Mark-----I'm HAPPY! :D
..and that is what is most important Deb! You go girlfriend! I love your quilt like theology. There is something good in all of it. It's like a buffet, and Christ is pleased with your advice I suspect. That is of course why He was nailed to a tree after all, right?
I am off to some porn sites, thank god for Christ, otherwise I would be worried about going to hell and stuff like that. But just in case, please make me feel better by answering my questions about sin, repentance and what parts of the Bible I should tear pages out of.
Mark: If you focused so much on Christ, then what are you doing focusing so much of your time and energy on me? You can’t change me, and yes, I am very happy with my girlfriend---VERY! Does that bother you? I wonder why…
Defining sin is simple. The Ten Commandments, among not loving God (rejecting God), as well as not treating your brothers and sisters “in love”. You constantly sit back and throw stones, while having much of your own crosses to bear. I’m not going to continue answering to your sarcasm, because frankly, it’s not even comical. I laugh at most sarcastic remarks, because I find people to be funny…but you? I find you to be a sad man. Why Mark? Are you sad? Don’t you think that God wants you to be happy here on earth? He doesn’t want us to constantly suffer. He gave us eternal life so that we can be happy here on earth, serving Him the best we could. Life trials have enough suffering on its own- which we share with Christ. But, your struggle with whatever, is showing through right now. Christ was nailed “to a tree” (as you put it) to take away our sins so that we would no longer be bound to the law. What don’t you understand about that.
Here… Look at Galatians chapter two verses 17 through 21:
"But what if we seek to be made right with God through faith in Christ and then find out that we are still sinners? Has Christ led us into sin? Of course not! Rather, I make myself guilty if rebuild the old system I already tore down.For when I tried to keep the law, I realized I could never earn God’s approval. So I died to the law so that I might live for God. I have been crucified with Christ. I myself no longer live, but Christ lives in me. So I live my life in this earthly body by trusting in the Son of God, who loved me an gave himself for me. I am not one for those who treats the grace of God as meaningless. For if we could be saved by keeping the law, then there was no need for Christ to die."
I wonder what that scripture means. How do you interpret that scripture Mark, my hard rock theology friend?
Mark, I once explained to you the research on that very line and gave you websites to look at. You dismissed my argument as liberal falsehood. So why should I go there again? I know the verse, and I still maintain that homosexuality in love, not as promiscuity or abuse--these can also be heterosexual sins--is fine with God as I understand him. You and I will just disagree. And really, that is fine--I am not out to convince you.
64 comments:
Precious, the love and desire to care comes from their hearts, not their genitals.
love it!! (warm fuzzies)
Genuine new life offered by God’s grace doesn’t come from accepting who you are; it comes from accepting who Christ is and dying to your sinful passions and living your life in the power of Christ, through whom all sin is overcome.
The Apostle Paul recounted the same struggle with his own pattern of sinful behavior in Romans 7:15-25, pushing him to the end of himself: “O wretched man that I am, who shall deliver me from this body of death!”. That's my story, that's your story, that's all who come to Christ story.
I realize that our friends, the homophobes, who attack viciously and use the Bible as a weapon may not get this: We live in a world with so many unwanted children. Even before I was a Christian, I never could tolerate abortion--life is precious. Yet children live here without parents or are put in foster homes because their parents cannot care for them. I am waiting for the onslaught, but here is my view: gay couples with a long term commitment to each other are doing God's work when they adopt children. I've known many gay couples who adopt children no one else will go near--kids with HIV, crack babies, kids who are psychologically troubled, kids born with disabilities. That is an act of mercy and goodness. We live in a severely overpopulated world. If as Christians, we refuse to endores abortion, then what happens to children who are born into hellish circumstances? I have seen gay couples rise to the occasion again and again. Leviticus was written for a different time. We are all too fruitful and we multiply to a point that the earth will soon not be able to handle the population growth. What is wrong with couples, be they straight and childless, or gay and childless, to adopt the unwanted? I see Jesus in such actions. I don't expect those who have made up their minds on this issue to see it my way. But I want this to be said.
Kathi: Thank you!
Lisa: Aren’t they the cutest things???
Mark: What sinful behavior? Homosexuality isn’t a sin. Being promiscuous is. I have my own sins to contend with, just like anyone else. Just because I have a partner, doesn’t mean I’m doing anything immoral in God’s eyes. Can you explain why the flamingos are gay if they didn’t consciously “choose” to be gay? Thanks for stopping by!
Enemy: You’re absolutely right! Leviticus was written in a different time, which we are no longer bound to the law. They can’t use that against us. It’s impossible. They can’t change our minds, and we cannot change theirs. I think the more they try to attack us, the more we see how unhappy these people truly are.
Prime example that it's not a "choice" as these other fanatics would say it is. I wonder if these flamingos woke up one morning and said, "Hmmmmmmmm, I don't believe I want to be a heterosexual any longer"? Mark doesn't choose men because he was born a heterosexual. He didn't "choose" to love women, did he, and he's just in denial? One never knows!
Hey Mark, put your bible down for one moment and answer me this- did you choose to be straight?
Funny thing, my little niece who is 4 yrs old wears boys' clothes, wanted her hair cut short and will only play with boy toys. She says to never call her a girl. She gets offended when you do. Now, we have no clue if it's a gender identity confusion or that she simply feels more comfortable looking and acting like a boy. Does it mean she's going to be gay when she gets older? I have no clue- 'cause sexual orientation has nothing to do with sexual preferences, however, I don't believe she "chose" this---I believe she was like this since she was born. I was the same way when I was her age. I seriously don't believe it's a matter of choice.
75% of Amy's family (on her father's side) are gay. What explains that?
Who in their right mind would want to choose being gay? It's a harder life, a harder battle and a difficult road when there's so many hateful people who just can't act civil towards one another if they aren't just like them.
Flamingos scare me. Ever since Alice in Wonderland. But otherwise, a cute story.
Sorry I didn't touch upon the flamingos. I was just preparing for another onslaught of sin accusation. There has been a lot of scientific research that shows that many species have same sex mates, even among dolphins whose intellect curiously reflects our own. And Loud Mouth is right: it isn't a choice. It is orientation.
Leesa: Flamingos only scare me when I see them on my aunt's lawn. You know how those Italians can be!
Ememy: Clearly it's not a choice, as if I were to make this life decision at birth! Sin accusation? Where? Not on my blog of course! Why I neva!!! ;)
Awww so cute. My friend and his husband adopted a little girl about a year and a half ago and they are in the process of looking for a little boy to adopt this year.
They have such a happy family. I love spending time with them.
-N
Deb said:
"Can you explain why the flamingos are gay if they didn’t consciously “choose” to be gay?"
Okay, I'm just saying: If you stopped by this conversation and only saw this one line without knowing what the conversation was about, you would laugh out loud really hard.
:-) Yes, I know that was random. Can you tell I'm avoiding work?
Hahaa!!!!!! Ah geez, it's been a long day. Just saying that sentence regardless if you read the entire thread sounds completely ridiculous! When's happy hour?
(Still laughing over that Lisa!)
Intellectual flamingos!
"The flamingos are gay! The flamingos are gay! Can anyone explain why the flamingos are gay???"
heeheeheeheeheeheehee
I bet Mark can.
:-X
That explains their pink outfits...
enemy of Republic says I realize that our friends, the homophobes, who attack viciously and use the Bible as a weapon may not get this:
Did you just call me a homophobe ? and in the same breath attack viciously? and NOT use the Bible, as if there is another source for absolutes or right and wrong? Shall all of the unsaved humanity gather around your feet while you mutter truth without the Bible? When we believe it, what shall we say is the source then?
Of Course you did, that's why you are a willing fool. You would do well to understand exactly what Christ says about such willingness to disregard His word. btw, give me your definition of homophobe and I'd be happy to spoon feed you the error and lie you worship.
A Swine's ass aka loud mouth ask Hey Mark, put your bible down for one moment and answer me this- did you choose to be straight?
Like I have said more than once here, 'straight' nor 'homosexual desires' are the issue. Please write that down Loud mouth aka piglet. It is about God's holiness, and that alone. You either accept it, or deny it. To make a human desire Holy before our God just because we have it, is sleeping, eating, and living IN Satan, not God. Hence, Christless. So is asking any man not to use his Bible for direction. i.e. Hey Mark, put your bible down for one moment.
When rational men and women gather here and actually believe, attribute, and celebrate two birds being what they call "gay", should make any follower of Christ shudder in sadness and despair. Nothing new however, the OT is filled with such men and women in a fallen folly. Eternal death is at stake people. It amazes me in 2007 it only takes a couple of Birds and one stolen egg, to muff the lost.
6) But from the beginning of the creation, God ‘made them male and female.’
7) ‘For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife,
8) and the two shall become one flesh’; so then they are no longer two, but one flesh.
9) Therefore what God has joined together, let not man separate.”
NT even. Ya'll gotta a lot of explaining to do, and most will. Sad.
That was sooo cute! I have not seen this flamingo clip before, that was very interesting. I have seen other animal life partners such as penguins and dolphins. Carlos and Fernando are great and so is their little chickee. Can I have them, pleeeeze!
What a moron this Mark character is. He's probably lonely.
Mark... it's a crock.
If you were truly so passionate about "saving the lost," I'd think you'd understand that nobody accepts your beliefs when you instult them. I think you relish the idea of winning a war of words more than the idea of convincing anyone of your truth. I find THAT sad. If it's really a matter of eternal life and death, treat it with the gravity it deserves and do away with the name-calling. You're a grown man. Leave it on the playground already.
Seriously. If we're talking about what's holy and appropriate: You think God expects you, Mark, to draw anyone closer to Him by calling them a swine's ass? Do you really? Answer me that. (Not that you will; you seem to neatly skip over any confrontation of your attacking style.)
Leaving out politics, religion and sexuality homo- or hetero- and just accepting this for what it is, it is..........
cute!!!!
and as a birdlover (hens and cocks, so what does that make me?) it made me go..... aaaaaaaaaaaaaah!
Well, Deb, I just came by for a friendly visit and see that Mark got offended--no, Mark, I was not thinking of YOU in particular. The world does not revolve around your belief system and your dogged insistence that some scripture is more important than other. No, I didn't quote the Bible. In your estimation, that must make my views less acceptable. But I am deliberately avoiding it on this page as I see the Bible used too often as a way to hurt people. I will not participate in that. If you think that I think you are a homophobe, you certainly can deny it. But why should you care when I am so clearly in the wrong and you are right? You shouldn't care what I think. I don't interest myself with your opinion either.
I do love it how no one here will touch that whole thing of why if bunnies and shrimp and shaving are also offenses against this so-called god, we have only chosen to respect his thoughts on homosexuality and not the other things. Hmmmm. Makes one wonder. But then again...I don't. I know why.
Also, did you know that there have been many studies that link homophobia with homo erotic feelings? That those men who were self-proclaimed homophones were the ones who showed more excitement at the sight of homo erotic scenes? Very very telling indeed.
-N
Deb! This is great!
It actually doesn't surprise me that a male flamingo would be gay every now and then ... after all, the poor things are forced to be PINK since birth!!
Have a great weekend my sweet friend!
:)
Homosexuality is not a sin but condemning it in God's name is, which is one of the many reasons why organised religion is failing to meet our spiritual needs.
I am a married mother of 2 and a lapsed catholic, just to put my comment in perspective.
Natalia - this is the very reason why I assume that this Mark character is a closet homosexual. He is on this blog all the time. You have to wonder why. Is he really that upset that Deb's a lesbian? Or is he really upset that there is actually somebody out there that is right with God and yet still homosexual?
Mark, come out of the closet already my friend.
Jon,
That's what I think about all these people crowing about homosexuality. Why would someone devote their lives to it? I think they are just jealous that other people are living the life they wish they could if they were honest with themselves and had the balls to do it.
It makes me really sad for them that their desires have to be put away and all the bitterness comes in hatred for those living their lives to the max.
Oh well.
-N
As for Mark's situation, this may apply:
Research by US psychologist Prof. Adams of the University of Georgia suggests that 80 percent of men who are homophobic have secret homosexual feelings.
In Prof. Adams's test, homophobic men who said they were exclusively heterosexual were shown gay sex videos. Four out of five became sexually aroused by the homoerotic imagery, as recorded by a penile circumference measuring device (a plethysmograph).
Prof. Adams's research was published in the prestigious US Journal of Abnormal Psychology in
1996, with the backing of the American Psychological Association.
Prof. Adams says his research shows that most homophobes "demonstrate significant sexual arousal to homosexual erotic stimuli", suggesting that homophobia is a form of "latent homosexuality where persons are either unaware of or deny their homosexual urges".
These findings support the theories that homophobia (fear and hatred of gayness and support for antigay discrimination) is often indicative of repressed, self-loathing homosexual feelings; and that many homophobes subconsciously use anti-gay attitudes as a smokescreen to disguise their own homosexuality.
I’m not too sure if Mark would be considered a closeted gay, however his concern for others who are homosexual is extreme. A lot of radical Christians focus a lot on the gay and lesbians, however they also miss important issues, like adultery, murder, stealing, etc. What about those sins? If they know they’re not going to change somebody’s views, then why bother? I think it’s just the way Mark’s religion guides him to.
And if he is secretly gay, he’s resisting the urges for his creator. (Which is a great thing if he believes that it’ll save him.) But, I don’t think he’s gay – regardless of studies and what have you. I joke around with him and ask if he’s secretly gay, but I think he’s just openly judgmental. (bwahaha) ;)
Let's ask him!
Mark, are you gay?
Wait---maybe he's a "closet-acceptor"?
Hey Deb,
Cute flamingos!
I see Mark is still visiting....
Well Mark.... I am still praying for you.
I will never go to Mark's blog again either cuz when I did not quote scripture to him he called me an athiest.... or maybe it was someone else on his site. I can't remember now.... I have better things to do with my time.
Anyways... honestly guys I don't understand the gay lifestyle and Deb you know that from previous conversations I have had with you. But I agree with all of you when you say why would you choose a gay lifestyle with all the pain and judgement you face daily!! I can not help but agree with that.
I live in a small, bible belt town... I love Jesus and all I know is I am not going to judge you. That is God's job....
So with that said.... I am gonna go. Blessings to all of you.
Dana
Mark, to draw anyone closer to Him by calling them a swine's ass? Do you really? Answer me that. (Not that you will; you seem to neatly skip over any confrontation of your attacking style.)
Brood of vipers ring a bell? I have no desire to draw anyone anywhere ms lisa. I will however proclaim God's word all be it imperfect to sweet innocent ears like yours. The rest is between those who hear and those who refuse to hear, and God.
Mark, come out of the closet already my friend
And if he is secretly gay, he’s resisting the urges for his creator.
Kinda like a child molestor Deb? Please get a clue dear. I have many sins I battle daily. Same sex attractions is not one of them but no more or less important in my walk and relationship with Christ.
Since ya'll are kind a dense, I'll repeat myself again, please at lest think about it.
It is about God's holiness, and that alone. You either accept it, or deny it. To make a human desire Holy before our God just because we have it, is sleeping, eating, and living IN Satan, not God. Hence, Christless.
Deb, love you. You remain in my prayers. :)
Take 2: He does take cheap shots at people when they disagree with him --because as we all know, he's always right...never wrong.
Mark: I was stating that I didn't think you were. I was saying, "if" you were and was holding back urges for your creator, than that was great- but I wasn't saying you were gay.
You get a clue my friend. Obviously you do have some deep seeded issues. Maybe you are closeted since you got so defensive over that one, when I was actually assuming you weren't.
Hmm. Now I have to wonder.
By the way Mark, why don't you list out your "sins" and then we can sit here and judge one another all day.
Hypocrite.
Deb, I did not mean to offend you. I understood what you said.
I really do not care what anyone thinks about me. I know that may sound arrogant, but my only concern at the end of the day is what God thinks.
My sins:
lust
hate
murder
lieing
stealing
hypocrite
adultrey
not honoring my parents
idolatry
taking my Lord's name in vain
etc...
have at it dear.
:)
Don't sweat it sista, this guy has some major problems. HA---and you were defending this closet case!
Mark: Well then, I appreciate your honesty with listing out your sins. Thank you. I'm sure we all struggle with our own crosses. This makes you human.
Loud mouth: It's all good...It's just that he needs to know that God is all forgiving and that I feel he shouldn't give into all the guilt. Guilt and shame are all emotions from the devil. Just focus on God. Isn't that our target here? God sees everyone's heart and everyone's struggle.
Guilt and shame are all emotions from the devil. Just focus on God. Isn't that our target here? God sees everyone's heart and everyone's struggle.
Well said Deb! I pray however you do not confuse guilt with true repentance. Christ was our way, our only way, but not for the unrepentant. Pride must not be the wall that sperates us from Him. True repentance actually brings joy in Christ saving us. It is daily Deb, daily.
:)
I'm not repenting for being in a loving relationship with my partner. I do not believe homosexuality is a sin, Mark. The bible believes that promiscuity is a sin, heterosexual OR homosexual. Maybe if you can get it in your head that we do not see eye-to-eye, then you wouldn't have to come on here to defend the homosexuality issue. It will never change my beliefs.
Be well!
Mark--I don't like your Christ. I don't like your Jesus. The God you portray is hateful and cruel. He is also not biblical. Think about Jesus's prayer before the Passion; he thought of his flock and worried for them even though he was about to suffer untold agonies. What is it about love that you hate so much? And if you dare attack me, which I am sure you will, you shall only prove my point even further. No wonder people can't stand Christians.
I think if you put a few of these males that come here and preach hatred in a room alone, there will be a lot happening. And I don't mean fighting. Spread the love!!!! ROTFL!
-N
"Brood of vipers ring a bell? I have no desire to draw anyone anywhere ms lisa. I will however proclaim God's word all be it imperfect to sweet innocent ears like yours. The rest is between those who hear and those who refuse to hear, and God."
You know nothing about my ears, Mr. Mark.
I'm not talking about proclaiming God's word. We as Christians are called to do that. I'm talking about proclaiming God's word IN LOVE, which God commands you to do and which you do not do because of your nasty attitude. Perhaps you should be a little less concerned about what God thinks of you proclaiming His word (since you obviously have no problem sharing your thoughts) and a little more concerned with how you show the love of Christ to your fellow human.
Way to sidestep the issue there.
"You know nothing about my ears, Mr. Mark. "
hahahah.. yet another one of those statements that, if read without reading the thread, makes me laugh out loud. :-)
Think about Jesus's prayer before the Passion; he thought of his flock and worried for them even though he was about to suffer untold agonies. What is it about love that you hate so much?
What is it about Christ's love do you have a hard time dealing with ms Republic? Is it His commands? His holiness? Why did Christ die? So Deb can say two men expressing their love for one another may be called Holy?
You know better Ms Republic, but you prefer to be liked in this world then speak the truth to her, even though you could probably do it much better than I do. That is NOT love. Heaven and Hell are real. Both are eternal. I'd start yelling at those you love before it's too late, no? But please don't do it the way I do. Do it with real love, no cursing or name calling. They will listen much better that way.
:)
Deb says
I'm not repenting for being in a loving relationship with my partner.
That's the exact same thing a pedophile said to me while in prison. Hummm... Christ and God's word was not his priority either.
I think if you put a few of these males that come here and preach hatred in a room alone, there will be a lot happening. And I don't mean fighting. Spread the love!!!! ROTFL!
Natalialard, Should you not be in Chicago at the Leather and Men fest?
-M
Oh, so just let me know when the authorities are going to raid my house and take away my partner and I for living together as a loving couple. That's priceless Mark! Shows true intelligence.
Mark's sins:
lust
hate
murder <--who?? you killed someone?
lieing <--lying?
stealing
hypocrite <--this one is ongoing
adultrey
not honoring my parents <--oooh, you made it in the top ten commandments!!!
idolatry
taking my Lord's name in vain<--rebel!
etc...
(AS he stated...)
Well, if you murdered someone as you stated, then who should be the one in jail right now?
Hmm.
Do you want this to be a judgment battle or do you want to just agree that we are all sinners and fall short?
And no, homosexuality is NOT a sin. Promiscuity is. Big difference.
I think you relish the idea of winning a war of words more than the idea of convincing anyone of your truth.
Yup. That pretty much sums up how I feel about Mark too. But I'm "weak skinned" and "would rather not offend anyone with the Gospel", according to Mark.
"The Gospel according to Mark"...AHAHAHAHA that pun was SO NOT INTENDED. (However, I have used that sweet little remark before and it was intentional. heehee)
Mark knows people very well. He is all knowing and can sum up your whole life story from a few blog comments. He's JUST that good. **Snicker**
Deb...I'm being induced on Monday...this kid is still hanging out in here! He gets his walking papers Monday though..heehee
Who woulda' thunk that a video about pink flamingos would rile up the bible thumpers, Sandalina???
AWEEEEEEE!!! You're gonna finally have your little one in your arms! He/she's too comfy in there---that's the problem! I hope everything goes well and that you're feeling okay. I'm going to miss you girl! Let me know how you're doing when you have time. ***WHEN*** KEY WORD THERE! ;)
Mark,
I understand your drift, but we disagree. I read God's word and there is nothing in it that convinces me that homosexuality of itself is wrong. Nothing. Promiscuity, immoral acts as Paul would call them--that is different. But there is absolutely no evidence that a gay individual, orientated as such, which implies that God intended such for his creation, is sinning in a loving, committed relationship. And God is bigger than sending Deb to hell for being gay if that is your argument. Jesus didn't come to change gays into heteros; he came to defeat sin and death. Deb is covered by the blood shed at Calvary NO MATTER WHAT. I cannot tell Deb she is sinning when I don't see it. And even if she were, don't I have sins of my own to worry about first? But she isn't living in sin. Trust me, Mark, I don't care about being liked. I don't like to get rude unless I must, and I am capable of such. But I don't see things your way. I don't think I can be clearer than that.
Am I missing the fest??? Awww bummer! Mark, get your toys and let's go! :) You are obviously more in the loop about these parties than I am. Bless you!
-N
Mark said: "But please don't do it the way I do. Do it with real love, no cursing or name calling. They will listen much better that way."
uh.. isn't TRYING to get people to listen the point of presenting a message to begin with?
Has nothing at all to do with being liked.. has everything to do with presenting opposing views in a way that doesn't personally attack and belittle your opponent. If you want people to listen to the truth, you don't start out by name-calling and belittling. THAT is something that Jesus NEVER DID, and that's not a debatable point. It's fact.
But whatever. You know better, I'm sure.
Mark knows people very well. He is all knowing and can sum up your whole life story from a few blog comments. He's JUST that good.
ahh thanks sandalina! I knew you loved me. I really appreciate that. God's speed with the yard monkey. :)
Deb,
Yes murder, hate in the eyes of God is murder. is that new to you?
enemy of da republic,
I read God's word and there is nothing in it that convinces me that homosexuality of itself is wrong. Nothing.
May I refer you to your Bible.
You shall not lie with a male as one lies with a female; it is an abomination.
Oh that's right, that no longer applies, god changes His mind, and Christ was not God in flesh, nor do any non red letters in the Bible apply becuase the NT gospels and letters were wrtten by Men, not God.
I stand corrected.
As you repeat the same "OLD" scripture my friend, let me repeat this...
Levticus - OLD - we no longer are bound by that law
Romans - Promiscuity and orgies ----women got bored with men and vise/versa for switching purposes. Read into it, don't read the text, understand the bible.
And again, to me, homosexuality between two people who love one another like a husband and wife is NOT a sin. And-----get this Mark-----I'm HAPPY! :D I really don't care what sin you're struggling with, because I know that God has forgiven you. As long as you focus on God and know that Jesus died for your sins, everything is okay. Stay focused on Him, and not on other people of this world. It's that simple.
God bless!
That is awesome!!!
BTW, Enemy pointed me to your blog. I'm glad she did.
Children need two parents who love them, and will be there to support them, no matter what. So what if it happens to be two men, or two women? I was raised by my mother, and father-- as well as my Aunt Judy (my mom's oldest sister). To some people, it would seem strange that I've always had a bedroom at her house, and treat her as if she's my mom, too, but to me, it's nothing strange. She loves me, and has provided well for me, as well as my parents my entire life. Although, they're all straight, it's still two women and one man in my life-- which to me, is no different than two women who are lesbians or two men who are gay.
Love is love-- and children need a lot of it!
*Hugs and Love*
Christy
PS: Pink flamingos rock!
Ummmm, I really enjoyed the video quality.... ? :)
Love is love, whether it be an animal or a human. hugsssssssssssss
Whims: Thanks for stopping by! Hope to see you more often.
Miss 1999: Hey Christy! I think in a loving, nurturing home, a child can get great care regardless if they’re straight, gay or a one parent household. When there’s child abuse of any sort, verbal or physical, then that can cause detrimental harm on the child’s psyche for the rest of his/her life. Thanks for your thoughts!
Wes: Take it up with CNN! (hehe) Do you think I made that video myself???
Lorna: Aren’t they a cute couple?
I really don't care what sin you're struggling with, because I know that God has forgiven you. As long as you focus on God and know that Jesus died for your sins, everything is okay. Stay focused on Him, and not on other people of this world. It's that simple.
Oh.. ok Deb, then having my way with...insert anything your flesh, mind, world desires would be ok with Christ? After all, I do focus on Him a lot. I really do. really, I do.
Could you define sin for me, just in case I forget? I've read about it in the Bible and also repentance? Is all that stuff just for other people?
Levticus - OLD - we no longer are bound by that law
What law am I bound to other than the man made laws of the country/state I live in? if any Deb? I just wanna be sure, ya know, all that eternal stuff.
And-----get this Mark-----I'm HAPPY! :D
..and that is what is most important Deb! You go girlfriend! I love your quilt like theology. There is something good in all of it. It's like a buffet, and Christ is pleased with your advice I suspect. That is of course why He was nailed to a tree after all, right?
I am off to some porn sites, thank god for Christ, otherwise I would be worried about going to hell and stuff like that. But just in case, please make me feel better by answering my questions about sin, repentance and what parts of the Bible I should tear pages out of.
Thanks Deb, you're a dear.
Mark: If you focused so much on Christ, then what are you doing focusing so much of your time and energy on me? You can’t change me, and yes, I am very happy with my girlfriend---VERY! Does that bother you? I wonder why…
Defining sin is simple. The Ten Commandments, among not loving God (rejecting God), as well as not treating your brothers and sisters “in love”. You constantly sit back and throw stones, while having much of your own crosses to bear. I’m not going to continue answering to your sarcasm, because frankly, it’s not even comical. I laugh at most sarcastic remarks, because I find people to be funny…but you? I find you to be a sad man. Why Mark? Are you sad? Don’t you think that God wants you to be happy here on earth? He doesn’t want us to constantly suffer. He gave us eternal life so that we can be happy here on earth, serving Him the best we could. Life trials have enough suffering on its own- which we share with Christ. But, your struggle with whatever, is showing through right now. Christ was nailed “to a tree” (as you put it) to take away our sins so that we would no longer be bound to the law. What don’t you understand about that.
Here… Look at Galatians chapter two verses 17 through 21:
"But what if we seek to be made right with God through faith in Christ and then find out that we are still sinners? Has Christ led us into sin? Of course not! Rather, I make myself guilty if rebuild the old system I already tore down.For when I tried to keep the law, I realized I could never earn God’s approval. So I died to the law so that I might live for God. I have been crucified with Christ. I myself no longer live, but Christ lives in me. So I live my life in this earthly body by trusting in the Son of God, who loved me an gave himself for me. I am not one for those who treats the grace of God as meaningless. For if we could be saved by keeping the law, then there was no need for Christ to die."
I wonder what that scripture means. How do you interpret that scripture Mark, my hard rock theology friend?
Amazing! Even in nature there is the same sex orientation. Wonderful story. Thanks for sharing.
Mark, I once explained to you the research on that very line and gave you websites to look at. You dismissed my argument as liberal falsehood. So why should I go there again? I know the verse, and I still maintain that homosexuality in love, not as promiscuity or abuse--these can also be heterosexual sins--is fine with God as I understand him. You and I will just disagree. And really, that is fine--I am not out to convince you.
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