Wednesday, May 23, 2007

Predetermined Destiny With Hypocrisy?

The best effective way to get a message across, is to be compassionate, patient and understanding of whatever response you’ll receive in return. When speaking about religious matters, people have to realize that religion is based on “faith”- not fact. For instance, if I was trying to feed a baby that mushy banana food, and he didn’t like it, I can’t cram the food down the baby’s throat. He’ll simply close his mouth and cry. The best way is to find a different approach. Maybe he’ll like the peach stuff better. Force-feeding anyone will result in a negative outcome. It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to figure that one out.

Dani and Mark, who profess to be Christians, feed their fellow believers with profanity if we don’t fully accept what we’re hearing from them. Think about those movies, like The Exorcist, and other flicks that portray the devil. At first, the devil will give you the most intellectual conversation. He makes sense at first. He comes as an angel of light. (Or, he comes “in love”.) You think, “Hmm, he’s really changed and his statements are really convincing.” Once the two of you have established a civil conversation, you’ve established a method of “listening with an opened heart”. Now, that the portal has been opened, the real seed starts to spread. Words to convince you to turn from God, renounce your religion and draw farther from God, come flowing out of the mouth that you’ve been willing to listen to.

Once you’ve rejected the message he’s trying to send you, he starts cursing you. The devil starts foaming at the mouth, using profanity and poking fun at your weaknesses, in order to hurt you, belittle you, and to knock you down a few notches. He’ll plot, scheme in his little hidden basement to come up with a new plan to attack you. He’ll keep focusing on you, until you become weak again.

Sound familiar?

It’s what Mark and Dani try to do on a constant basis. They come “in love”, as an angel of light. They even call themselves, “Christians”. Am I judging these people? I’m not judging their character or their life outside blogworld- I’m simply observing how they’ve treated me. They’ve hurt me with insults, and have told me to practice a different religion- which is the worst sin of all in the bible. (Even in their bible.)

Here’s Mark’s comment to me:

“Deb, you dear are the 'closed minded' one. The second anyone one disagrees with you even in true concern and love, the hate and bigotry bottled up in YOU sweats from your skin and lips like a sickness! You dear are the SOS (samd old shit) everyday. It does not take a scholar to realize as much. You're like a very clean glass window...transparent.I love you Deb, that's why I and folks like Dani are the first to say you're full of crap with your God loves any opinion bullshit. hugs and kisses! ....as I wash my hands before I boil and eat this lobster...ms hypocrite who knows it. :)

Do you have ADLGD?...of course you do, that's why we have Rx's to help. No need for Christ when one worships at the alter of 'cause I feel like it. See, you're ok! be yourself dear. It's all good in your god's sight, all good! All good! and don't you let anyone tell you different. God's word is only in each person's heart! just like those who flew planes into buildings on Sept 11, 2001. My God is Your God and their God. Who can Judge ?? Not me! I love all gods and so does God!Yep, it's in the Bible.”

Even his “hugs and kisses” are used with sarcasm. He hides behind the Christian label, throwing fire at those who are different, those who have different relationships with God.

Dani is no different. Her comment to Mark was out of the “same love”.

"Hey Mark - I just posted this too and I dedicated it to Deb with love! Go check out her comments. At first I thought there was hope, but unfortunately it turned out to be the SOS (same old shit). Too bad. Guess we'll just have to keep praying that God will show her the Truth."

When these people say, “I love you,” don’t believe it. They’re self-righteous and feel as though God approves of their ways of teaching others how to be a good Christian. Are there any “good Christians” out there? No. We all have flaws and imperfections. It’s called, being human.

I’m not trying to put these two into the fire by displaying their hatred towards those who are different, especially homosexuals, which they seem to focus their entire lives to, but I’m trying to show how ignorant their message sounds when profanity and insulting words are used.

Again, religion is based on “faith”, and not fact. They do not know for sure, if what they are revealing to us is truth. They don’t---it’s literally impossible. What I tell you, and everyone else who reads this blog is out of pure faith. I cannot say it’s “truth”. It is, however, truth for “me”. But that’s different than displaying your belief as truth. To say that your belief is truth for everyone is a major oxymoron. The lack of intelligence that goes behind this concept is the mindset of a cult-like group. They have blinders on, willingly, going around making irrational comments. They’re not helping anyone. They’re spreading hatred. You even see this type of stuff with the Phelp’s family. They spread hatred over to their children. They’re taught to hate “faggots”. They’re taught that gays and lesbians are equivalent to those who are pedophiles, violent rapists, murderers, as well as people who distribute child porn.

Now, as a follower of Christ, I will even ask this question… What if, we all open the doors into the afterlife, to find that Jesus is sitting among Mohammad, Buddha, and many other Gods, waiting for our return? They all ask us, “So have you figured it out yet?” And we look at them in shock, our jaws opened wide in awe. What if they’re all sitting up in heaven laughing at how we’re acting?

Who’s to say that can’t happen?

However, my beliefs are different, but then again, I can be wrong. You just never know. How ironic would it be that we’ve been fighting, debating and killing each other over what’s true, when in fact, all of it is!

Do all roads lead to Rome? Or are we all set apart for one God. Are all Muslims going to hell? Are all Jews destined to dive into a pit of hell? Are all Buddhists going to be swimming in a fiery pool?

Our brain is incapable of grasping the meaning of life. If we were to grasp that understanding, our brains would just explode. We’re not equip to know the truth. It’s like fish trying to comprehend algebra. It’s impossible.

As one commenter stated in my previous post, would God make it that easy? If the bible was so black and white, then why did Dani and I have total different meanings of the verse in Romans, in my previous post?

What’s the difference between faith and fact?

102 comments:

Mark said...

So I guess our lunch date is a no go?

Seriously,
No follower of Christ can read the Bible and not grasp that any sexual relations outside of a man and woman in marriage is ok with God. If they do, they are lost! I pray one day you'll be willing to let go and give all your life to Christ, not just parts.

One God, One truth. There is no Biblical buffet as much as you would like to believe that.

Mark said...

Are all Muslims going to hell? Are all Jews destined to dive into a pit of hell? Are all Buddhists going to be swimming in a fiery pool?

anyone who rejects Christ will be rejected BY Christ and spend eternity in Hell.

~Deb said...

Mark: But, we interpret the bible in different ways. As you can see in my previous post, Dani and I had two different meanings of that verse in Romans. And, yes, “in my beliefs”, Christ is the only way for “me” to get into heaven. In the same breath, I cannot tell someone of another religion that their destiny is hell. Faith is not fact. Faith is definitely what we have to hold on to.

Mark said...

I cannot tell someone of another religion that their destiny is hell. Faith is not fact. Faith is definitely what we have to hold on to.

Deb, right there explains perfectly where you are in your relationship with Christ! You have none I fear. This is not a matter of how one would witness, you believe you CANT! Christ is living Deb, this has nothing to do with your 'faith' or anyone elses.

If you think Christ is equal to any other religion, belief, faith etc..You do not know Christ Deb!

Mark said...

Now, as a follower of Christ, I will even ask this question… What if, we all open the doors into the afterlife, to find that Jesus is sitting among Mohammad, Buddha, and many other Gods, waiting for our return? They all ask us, “So have you figured it out yet?” And we look at them in shock, our jaws opened wide in awe. What if they’re all sitting up in heaven laughing at how we’re acting?

Who’s to say that can’t happen?


Damn girl! You really are in trouble. To answer your question: Jesus Christ, God in flesh said that WILL not happen! I am amazed you say you even read the Bible! absolutely amazed!

~Deb said...

What does it mean to have a personal relationship with Jesus? It’s “personal”. For me to judge anyone of what they believe in is pure arrogance. I have no right to try to convert someone else to Christianity. All I can do is share the word of God.

Mark, you’re a perfect example of a pseudo Christian. You spew hatred with cursing at me and making fun of my depression and anxiety. If anything, you’re the one who doesn’t know God, or you wouldn’t have made a complete fool of yourself with those comments.

Think about it, do you really feel that people will listen to your disgusting trucker driver’s mouth? You come across as low class, the way you debate with others.

You’re full of hatred. I will pray for you.

Irisi said...

Mark: "anyone who rejects Christ will be rejected BY Christ and spend eternity in Hell."

Well, if heaven is full of hate spitting close minded individuals that firmly hold on to this idea, I think I prefer to be in hell anyways.

~deb: Well, I was really really hoping that optomism would prevail here, but no, it looks like you are dealing with some minipulative, masked figures coming to you with their own agendas but hiding it as love. I'm sorry you have to go through this stuff.

It looks like you're handling it well. I support you!

I am mildly amused that when dani/mark are hardheaded they are applaunded by sandy for being "firm in their convictions" or whatever, and when you stand your ground, you're "close minded." Ah, double standards are delicious. The things people do in the name of a loving God..

Take care dear, sorry you're having to deal with this stuff!

Irisi said...

PS I, too, will pray for mark to stop being full of so much hate. It must be very tiring to always be right, yes? Well, we pagans have a different method of doing things, but I'll be sending you light nonetheless.

Miranda said...

Sighs.....I think Deb....some people are just lost causes.

Sandalina said...

Just send out an S.O.S to God on Mark's behalf. A rescue is needed.

I have to say that there are many theological points he adheres to that I adhere to as well based on the scripture. Just because he "believes" the way I do (in a lot of things, not all of them), does NOT mean I in anyway support the way he demeans, belittles, and patronizes people. It's disgusting.

He completely disregards scripture concerning the content of his heart and his tongue and excuses it away as "he's not perfect".

Anyways...because Jesus said, "I am the way, the truth, and the life, no one comes to the Father except through me," I firmly believe that people who do not accept Christ and his sacrifice WILL go to hell.

May not be a very nice thought, but believing what Jesus said himself, I cannot believe any other way.

I agree with what Gary said too in regards to the judging people based on their actions. However, I don't know so much as I would call it "judging" because that's really not up to us--but it's SO HARD. I do it too! We can go back and forth until eternity picking apart each other's flaws.

I think the better word would be "rebuking" or "teaching" through what Scriputure says based on someone's actions, because there are times when people are just plain wrong.

Not all scripture is grey. "Thou shalt not lie"...I cannot interpret that any other way other then: don't lie. I can't say there is an exception to keep from hurting someone's feelings or that it's ok to omit the truth to keep myself out of trouble. I cannot lie. Period. The consequence is that it harms my integrity and also my witness when I profess to be a Christian and am found out to be a liar.

Anyways...I am going on a tangent and chasing bunny trails. My point is basically that we need to use scripture...all scripture to determine our beliefs, our reactions to others, and our basis for rebuking.

Mark only hurts his own integrity and hinders the work that God can do through him by cursing and swearing his head off and speaking with a forked tongue.

He knows what the scripture says about the tongue and the content of his heart, he just deliberately and purposely chooses to ignore it. Hmmm...sounds like what he accuses you of everyday doesn't it??

Oh those nasty beams...always getting in the way...

Sue said...

Funny how if you run a google search on this Charlene person, all you get is the ex-lesbian aspect. Even when you go the Venus mag website the archives only have two articles -- the redemption one and one other. This magazine was supposed to have been such a force in the black lesbian community but other than everyone referencing this point, I don't find much information that she may have written before this. Of course I am not the most computer savvy but there should have some articles about her militant protection of gay rights etc.

Mark said...

I have not cursed nor made fun of you Deb. Stop acting like a victim when it suits your needs.

~Deb said...

I'll repeat word for word what you wrote:

“Deb, you dear are the 'closed minded' one. The second anyone one disagrees with you even in true concern and love, the hate and bigotry bottled up in YOU sweats from your skin and lips like a sickness! You dear are the SOS (samd old shit) everyday. It does not take a scholar to realize as much. You're like a very clean glass window...transparent.I love you Deb, that's why I and folks like Dani are the first to say you're full of crap with your God loves any opinion bullshit. hugs and kisses! ....as I wash my hands before I boil and eat this lobster...ms hypocrite who knows it. :)

Do you have ADLGD?...of course you do, that's why we have Rx's to help. No need for Christ when one worships at the alter of 'cause I feel like it. See, you're ok! be yourself dear. It's all good in your god's sight, all good! All good! and don't you let anyone tell you different. God's word is only in each person's heart! just like those who flew planes into buildings on Sept 11, 2001. My God is Your God and their God. Who can Judge ?? Not me! I love all gods and so does God!Yep, it's in the Bible.”



Or, are we interpreting your comment differently?

Pathetic.

QUASAR9 said...

hmmm Deb,
don't know what to say
samo samo whichever way

If I like rock and they like jazz
we won't be going to the same gig

If they like snow and I like sun
who is to say which of us is wrong

Anonymously Saying said...

Mark,

You have a lot to learn about having a personal relationship with God and just being a Christian alone! You have no clue what is means to be a Christian!

The Cursing Tongue:

Some people, Christians included, have a nasty habit of using their tongue for cursing. Romans 3:13-14 says, "Their throat is an open sepulchre; with their tongues they have used deceit; the poison of asps is under their lips: Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness." This passage deals strictly with unsaved people and their ungodly ways, yet there are a great many professing Christians who curse regularly. Friend, why would you want to identify yourself with someone whom God describes as being DEAD, DECEITFUL, and POISON?

"As he loved cursing, so let it come unto him: as he delighted not in blessing, so let it be far from him. As he clothed himself with cursing like as with his garment, so let it come into his bowels like water, and like oil into his bones."(Psalm 109:17-18) Many people curse because their life is miserable.They are unhappy so they make it known with their degenerate speech. This text says that God keeps them unhappy BECAUSE of their speech! God curses those who curse! Christian, don't expect God's blessings when your mouth is filled with cursing.
The Proud Tongue

The Bible also speaks of the proud tongue. Psalm 12:3-4 says, "The LORD shall cut off all flattering lips, and the tongue that speaketh proud things: Who have said, With our tongue will we prevail; our lips are our own: who is lord over us?" The most annoying Christians in the world are those with proud tongues because a proud tongue usually comes with two closed ears! Proud- tongued Christians are generally so full of themselves that they learn very little from anyone else. A proud-tongued Christian will talk much of his knowledge and service, but very little about the Lord.
In a church, a proud-tongued Christian will make all sorts of suggestions about how the church should function, yet his suggestions, if received, will place burdens on everyone but himself. A proud- tongued Christian is hard to teach or reason with because he thinks he knows everything.

Friend, God hates a proud tongue. Allow the Holy Spirit to use your tongue in the way of humility and kindness because pride will only quench God's Spirit and damage your testimony.

Mark said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
genexs said...

Yikes Deb! Do you really need to give more air-time to the intolerant? Kudos for exposing the hypocrisy. You've shown you can be decent with those you disagree with. But it does not work the other way. Psychologists have studied very conservative people, (as written about in John Dean's 'Conservatives without Conscience'), and demonstrated that someone open minded and tolerant is a personal affront to them! By trying to get them to see things your way--or even marginally accept you-- you are insulting them. The worrisome thing is, these people often don't play nice.

I liked your image of getting to Heaven and being greeted by the Gods. (Heh, but next time, can you include some Goddess such as Isis, Hecate, or Freya? Heaven was sorta looking like a men's club.) If someone has not learned what they are suppose to, I know one very horrible punishment they might inflict: they send you back to try again.

blessed be,
Gene

Gary Baker said...

As far as the term "judgment" is concerned, my interpretation is this: If I proclaim what an individual's fate will be, I judge them. If I observe that an action leads to judgment based on the scripture, it is not. I can't know what any person's relationship is with Christ. I can only compare what is said and done with the standard of God's word. Some people call that judgment. I don't think it is. If Christ corrects me, I'll do my best to change.

"I have no right to try to convert someone else to Christianity. All I can do is share the word of God."

Now this is a real hard one, Deb. I know that we are not judges, but we are called to make disciples. Some are called to go further than others in the particulars, but in one form or another it is a call that we all share. I know that I can't in good conscience claim that I believe there is any other way to salvation than Christ.

Enemy of the Republic said...

I confess: I swear. I do it on my blog when I get mad. My husband swears like no one's business behind the wheel. Both of us have ample vocabularies and know better. We are working on it.

I get angry about issues that involve discrimination and people getting hurt. I also sometimes just get mad. But I would like to think that I don't exist to make another person's life miserable, whether I agree or disagree with their ideas or lifestyle. When I fall from that path and give into my rage, I always regret it.

That is my truth--I see these as genuine flaws that I wish to refine. So I ask you, Mark, where are you in your own self-analysis? Even if you are correct and Deb is wrong, do you believe your methods serve the end? I don't ask any of this in condemnation; I am sincerely inquiring.

~Deb said...

People who curse, belittle and bring down another Christian aren’t spreading the “truth”, as they call it. To be a disciple, sometimes it takes a different approach, Gary. We can’t force-feed anyone. God gave us “choice”. We can either minister with love, or curse people who seem to be weak in faith. But, who’s to judge anyone else’s relationship with God?

Mark, with all his sarcasm, cursing, and derogatory blabber, who would want to be a Christian after meeting someone like that? If Christianity was based upon people who did it Mark’s way, we’d be in big trouble.

Again, faith is not fact.

However, in John 20:29 it says:

“You believe because you have seen me. Blessed are those who haven’t seen me and believe anyway.”

I believe. I have blind faith, as well as spiritual experiences that lead me to believe that God loves me, He loves you, and He loves all of his children – and yes, His sinners.

You cannot force-feed the word of God… That person has to believe. And, if God wants that person to be saved, He will make sure that he/she is saved.

Do you have enough faith that God will do just that? Good works alone aren’t enough- it’s faith and the treatment you display towards your brothers and sisters.

Do you disagree? And if you do, that’s okay.

That's the difference.

Mark said...

republic,
I have a lot of work to do on my speech. My methods are not perfect. God's word is. I get ticked when I see it washed in crap and proclaimed clean and holy.

Mark said...

Deb,
I am not force feeding you anything. I am rebuking your lies being passed off as God's word.

~Deb said...

What seems to be your truth, doesn't happen to be my truth.

Which one is "right"?

~Deb said...

How about a better question for you Mark...

Am I going to hell, because I don't believe what you believe in?

Mark said...

Am I going to hell, because I don't believe what you believe in?


I have no idea where you will spend eternity. I do however know where I will spend eternity.

~Deb said...

Then that's all that matters!

Matt-Man said...

There are some matters of doctrinal matters upon which I disagree with you upon. i.e. Name it and Claim it, and the importance of works in addition to faith. But I would never think of you as anything other than a good person who will ultimately end up in heaven. Cheers Deb!!

Enemy of the Republic said...

Mark, I appreciate your response. Thank you.

Enemy of the Republic said...

Actually, I never did answer that last question: fact vs. faith. It's a loaded topic. I remember when I taught grade school, I had to teach the difference between fact and opinion--standard curriculum for Language Arts. I don't see faith as the same--at least it could be called educated opinion, but it is more--it is a trust, a belief that something is real whether your five senses have appropriated it or not. Fact generally falls into the scientific method, that which can be proven, that which is seen as empirically evident. Many people rely on archeology to prove that the Bible is true: since there is little to no evidence that the Hebrews were in Egypt, shouldn't that be proof that Exodus is fiction? In my mind, no. Knowledge as a tangible force is limited--I study epic poetry, and Troy has been proven to be a place. But does that mean the war took place as Homer put it? By the same token, if it didn't exist, would the war still be conscious in the mind of the ancient Greeks? Many documents have been lost, yet we still know they existed through references in others. Okay, Enemy out.

Mark said...

Since the Hebrews in Egypt were slaves to begin with, and then they continued to be nomadic for a period while returning to the land of Canaan, finding tangible traces of such a history may be similar to trying to prove archaeologically what the nomadic conqueror, Attila the Hun, specifically did in his life.

Dani said...

Deb - It truly grieves my heart that you must resort to this kind of defensive behavior again when all I was doing was reaching out in love and concern for you.

Yes, I said that unfortunately your views resorted to the SOS from the past, but only after I expressed that I thought there was a glimmer of hope for you to have a change of heart and see the real Truth. Honestly, I was disappointed because you really seemed to express a sincere desire to know the Truth and a deep hunger for answers. But it didn't take long to learn that was not really the case as you have demonstrated in you latest two posts.

Instead you call me hateful, compare me to the devil, make unrighteous judgments about my heart and motives while deliberately being disingenuous about my character and the comments I write. You have lied about me in the past saying I was vulgar and using profanity when you know that's not something I would do, or have ever done.

Please examine your own heart before you make judgments about mine. Be honest with yourself and recognize that the real reason you post stuff like this and call me "hateful" is because you HATE the TRUTH.

Lisa said...

Mark, I get equally ticked when I hear someone washing God's word in the filth of their own anger and hatred before using it to beat someone over the head.

If it's God's word, then DELIVER IT WITH GOD'S SPIRIT, which is one of LOVE. Not sarcasm, not anger, not one-up-manship.. HUMILITY AND LOVE.

Deb is seeking the truth for her life. Whether she is misguided is between her and God. She invites us into her thoughts via her blog, but the fact remains: YOU cannot make her change her ways. If her ways need to be changed, THE HOLY SPIRIT will convict her IN LOVE. God will draw her close to Him IN LOVE.

The way you act DIRECTLY contradicts the spirit of God that lives in you. It is infuriating and IT IS WRONG. If you are comfortable with that, then there is something seriously wrong with the way God works IN YOU that should be addressed before you question how God works in Deb or anyone else.

Nobody is perfect. But you certainly frequent this blog and correct Deb often enough... why is everyone else out of line when they correct YOU and your attitude?

Anne said...

Why are you still bothering with certain hateful people? You really are under no obligation to even acknowledge their existence.

For some reason I was unable to leave a comment on your last post. The fact is that the Bible does not specifically say what sort of sex is unnatural. Anyone can try to interpret that, it doesn't necessarily make them right because anything more than what's printed in black and white is purely personal opinion.
And correct me if I'm wrong, but Jesus personally never said one word about homosexuals, one way or the other.

~Deb said...

Dani: I hate “your truth”, because you’re seething over homosexuals. You want me to turn into a heterosexual! You’re smarter than that, but unfortunately, people who are smart also get brainwashed. Just because I’m not willing to do what poor Maxime was brainwashed to do- she was told by you to wait till marriage, live with you and your husband and join your “church”, does not mean I’m not right with God. You have some nerve to even come onto my blog, or dedicate a blog in a deceitful way, making me believe you were branching out to me “in love”. You’re a lying, conniving, deceiving woman. And yes, you remind me EXACTLY how Satan is-----the deceiver of all deceivers. You took a post that I wrote when I was weak, and then used it to your advantage. You’re sick. Am I angry? Yes, I am quite angry that you’re luring young girls into a cult-like setting, and then trying to prey on those who feel down. You have made fun of my depression and anxiety, just as Mark as. You are both the same. There are no differences between you and Mark. So, with that, I leave you with your brainwashing, bloodsucking blog, in hopes that people will see the true demon that you are. And yes, that is “my belief” about you. Peace!

Lisa: Thank you- they do frequent my blog- way too many times to count. If they were happy with their own lives, they’d be spreading the good word with love, instead of such hatred. Don’t be deceived by Dani either. Her approach right now may be ‘calm’, but how she treats people is appalling.

Anne: I have no clue. These people love to tear down other people’s spirits. They’re bloodsuckers. And, they make no apologies for their disgusting behaviors of ridiculing people and their weaknesses. I totally agree with your comment. Thank you for stopping by!

Miranda said...

Amen Deb. Every word you said about her is so true. They're all brainwashed into believing all that. And to say she's not hateful? Oh please. Judgemental as always. Thats the problem with them. And they wonder why the people they diss so often have emotional problems. If they just left them alone to their happiness all would be good. But...of course not...they have to poke the hive.

Sorry I've been reading the goings on back and forth and on her blog too. She makes me sick. Nothing makes me more sick than someone that's 'born again' thinking they're better than everyone else. Thats like an ex-smoker preaching. Look at her past....says Im sorry and moves on. Well I say Deb...say your sorry and move on.....with youre loving happy relationship. God wants all of His children happy.

Your not out stealing, killing, abusing, molesting children (which she so often connects every frikkin time) Your not out selling drugs.....yada yada yada.

You are a good person, and see good in all. Now if the others cant get their heads out of their butts and see the good. So be it.

As my mom said, if you cant say anything nice, dont say anything at all.

P.S. sorry for the rant. But as you know Im under pressure....I had to blow up sometime. lol

Maxime said...

Yeah, I'm brainwashed. You want to know by who?

BY GOD! By His Word and by His rules. I may just be only 19, but God gave me a BRAIN. I can think for myself and make my own decisions.

I humbled myself before the Lord and repented of my sins. I stopped sleeping with my (now ex-)boyfriend because I want to honor God with my body and I put Him before everything else. So yes, also before my own desires.

I choose to do what is right.

I thank Dani for speaking the TRUTH - harsh as it is, but always with good intent. If it weren't for her and her stron convictions, I would have never given myself to the Lord.

The choice to move to Denver, was my own. I've always wanted to go back to the US, so I can be close to my family. A good church, loving friends and getting married is a HUGE bonus.

Lisa said: If it's God's word, then DELIVER IT WITH GOD'S SPIRIT, which is one of LOVE. Not sarcasm, not anger, not one-up-manship.. HUMILITY AND LOVE.

Maybe you should take your friends advice.

In Christ,

~Maxime

The Rev. Dr. Kate said...

Deb - I am sorry that you are under attack by such vitriolic folks. Just my sort of aside to the argument. . . In the english language, there is no verb for the word, "faith" as there is in greek. We do not say "I faith," we say "I believe" which implies both factual knowledge and certainty. That is not what the verb means in Greek. It translates closer to "I am willing to stake my life on the hope that this is true." And subtext of this debate is that Dani and Mark are willing to stake their lives on the hope that what they believe is true. Deb, you and many of your readers, and me too, are willing to do the same about what we we hope to be true.
It is God who knows and judges our hearts - and each of us deserve to be treated with respect and love. Deb - my prayers for love and protection from the venom are with you. And Dani and Mark,this is Deb's blog - she has the right to air her thoughts here. If you disapprove of the views she expresses, don't read her blog.
How hard is this?

Sandalina said...

Oh Irisi, I can tell you that Deb knows I genuinely love her, I've not once gone about beating her over the head with what I believe.

Look at my comments...I am not applauding them. There is nothing wrong with taking a stance on an issue and not wavering.

However, I'm so over Mark's excuses for his behavior. I'm over Dani's too, but she made what I thought was an honest attempt in approaching Deb differently and I felt that deserved to be recognized. It showed a softer side. But the "sos" comment just blew that thought to bits.

I don't have to go back and spew hatred at her (Dani) just because I haven't agreed with the way she speaks--I liked the way she seemed to be handling herself. And just because I adhere to alot of the same interpretation of the Bible regarding homosexuality, does NOT mean I am cheering those two on to continue blathering hateful comments.

I trust that if Deb wants to ask me anything regarding my beliefs, then she will address them with me. She has made her position clear, and I do not feel the need to rehash it over and over again.

I have prayed for her, I love her, and I truly believe she is sincerely seeking God. That's all that matters at this point. It's between HER and God.

Irisi, I just don't understand why you think Mark and Dani should change their belief or interpretation of the scripture! You are saying they shouldn't be trying to sway Deb's opinion, so why do you think she should be able to sway theirs?

Their (Dani's and Mark's)approach is what's appalling. They just need to give it up. I don't see them using scripture or explaining scripture, all I read is their love for sarcasm. It's truly disgusting. I can't say it enough. It's like they are giving each other "Hi 5s" and slaps on the back for bullying other people and "putting them in their place". Immature.

Like I posted above, Mark deliberately ignores scripture everytime he swears and belittles someone and yet he is accusing Deb of the same thing. (i.e. blatantly ignoring scripture) It's ridiculous. He's unteachable.

~Deb said...

Miranda: Thank you, and please, rant on. I appreciate what you wrote. And yes, I do agree that God does want His children to be happy.

Maxime: By God? Is that what Dani calls herself these days?

Rev. Kate: That definition fits to what I believe, “I am willing to stake my life on the hope that this is true." They disapprove and tell me that I’m wrong. They say that I don’t know “the truth”. I honestly think they spend more time bantering with other Christians, rather than focusing on God, and developing a relationship with Him.

~Deb said...

Sandalina---you speak out of love when you tell me your beliefs. There's a huge difference. Thank you for treating me like a human.

{{hugs}}

Maxime said...

Deb, please don't be sarcastic. I don't worship Dani, I worship God.

I've had my beliefs before I got in touch with Dani, she just helped me strengthen my faith.

~Deb said...

I apologize Maxime. It's just her approach. I hope you find happiness in the path you chose.

Sandalina said...

I have a verse I just thought of...we've been discussing "judging" and "rebuking" and the like. What it really boils down to is that Jesus said, "You will know them by their fruit."

And what are the fruits of the Spirit? Love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control.

I see one blogger who has consistently demonstrated those "fruits"...

And I see two others who have not shown any of those characteristics.

If you want to use scripture Dani and Mark, use ALL of it, and try to put down your sarcasm "weapons of mass destruction". Try applying the Word of God in your own lives once in a while before you start battling it out with Deb.

You say you are doing it out of love for Deb...do you not see how many hits and comments she gets on her website? You are not just talking to Deb, you are talking to MANY MANY people and have you thought that perhaps you are being used to hinder the work of God with your sharp tongues?

Oh wait...Right...you have the answer for that one, "Nobody's perfect." Good grief. I'm so sick of that poor excuse. Can you not READ before you hit PUBLISH? It's one thing when someone says something in anger...and entirely another thing when you are sitting behind your little computer THINKING up sarcastic comments to make to people.

And Miranda...how funny about what your mom used to say...I was going to say the same thing in my last comment! lol Our mamas were smart.

Dani said...

Sandalina - You and everyone here on this blog are so quick to judge Mark and I for everything we say, yet you fail to notice the blatant hate and disrespect spewing forth from Deb's mouth.

Tell me, what part of the fruit of the Spirit has Deb shown towards me, especially in her last comment?

Deb said...

"Dani: I hate “your truth”, because you’re seething over homosexuals. You want me to turn into a heterosexual! You’re smarter than that, but unfortunately, people who are smart also get brainwashed... You have some nerve to even come onto my blog, or dedicate a blog in a deceitful way, making me believe you were branching out to me “in love”. You’re a lying, conniving, deceiving woman. And yes, you remind me EXACTLY how Satan is-----the deceiver of all deceivers... You’re sick. Am I angry? Yes, I am quite angry that you’re luring young girls into a cult-like setting, and then trying to prey on those who feel down. You have made fun of my depression and anxiety, just as Mark as. You are both the same. There are no differences between you and Mark. So, with that, I leave you with your brainwashing, bloodsucking blog, in hopes that people will see the true demon that you are. And yes, that is “my belief” about you. Peace!"

Tell me, where is the love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control here?

I thought if you can't say anything nice, don't say anything at all. Hmmm? Guess that only applies to some people.

~Deb said...

Dani, it's obvious who would be more credible speaking for God our Lord. You speak with such wrath, profanity and codomnation. You are not God, and nor will you ever be. So get off your high horse and start preaching to people who will actually listen to your cult-like speech.

I'm so done with you.

GW Mush said...

A man walks into a bar
With a slab of asphalt under his arm,
And says:
A beer please,
And one for the road.

hehehehe

~Dawn said...

~Deb
I found it interesting that Dani used Romans 12:9 and left off the rest of it. Interesting, because we all need to be the type of person that paul speaks of, it is hard (I will be the first to admit this) but it can be learned and shown in action.


Here it is:
Romans 12:10-20 (emphasis mine)
Be devoted to one another in brotherly love. Honor one another above yourselves. Never be lacking in zeal, but keep your spiritual fervor, serving the Lord. Be joyful in hope, patient in affliction, faithful in prayer. Share with God's people who are in need. Practice hospitality.
Bless those who persecute you; bless and do not curse. Rejoice with those who rejoice; mourn with those who mourn. Live in harmony with one another. Do not be proud, but be willing to associate with people of low position. Do not be conceited.

Do not repay anyone evil for evil. Be careful to do what is right in the eyes of everybody. If it is possible, as far as it depends on you, live at peace with everyone. Do not take revenge, my friends, but leave room for God's wrath, for it is written: "It is mine to avenge; I will repay,"says the Lord. On the contrary:
"If your enemy is hungry, feed him;
if he is thirsty, give him something to drink.
In doing this, you will heap burning coals on his head."Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.

My Prayers are with you all.
Grace to you!

Lorna said...

i have read this blog once...........and have had quite enough with one visit. You are both mean spirited and pompous........and neither one of those traits are godlike.

Lorna said...

deb,
I actually took the time to visit Mark's blog. Read through a few post s and knew right away he, and Dani, were mean spirited and pompous. First and LAST time I visit. HUGSSSSSSSSSSSS to you and your efforts to educate the ignorant.

Anonymous said...

I found Dani preaching to an old lady!!!!

genexs said...

Anon: Hysterical! Thanx for the pic.

Dawn: Thanx for the full scripture. Funny how people like Mark and Dani are so skillfull in editing scripture to advance their hateful agenda.

Rev Dr. Kate: Thanx for the "faith" definition. I think I understand how it's used here. It's on the level of a suicide b*mber or nine11 hijker. They believe, through faith, that they are so right they are willing to stake their lives, and everyone else's lives, on what they believe in. But does the depth of their conviction make it so?

Sandalina said...

I admit it, I laughed at that picture. Out loud, and hard. haha

It wasn't what I was expecting.

Deb, the pictures in your post today are scary. I hope I don't have nightmares. Yikes! lol

Take 2 said...

Deb.... oh Deb......

Have not blogged or emailed ya lately but I come and read this "crap" from you and Dani and Mark again. This seems to be getting a bit redundant.

Judge not.... lest you be judged!!

Love God, love others. Noone knows another's heart, noone knows where another stands with God except for God.

You can not talk sense to others but only pray. So I will now shut my mouth again and pray.

I will email ya....

Love ya sistah.

Dana :-)

Irisi said...

Sandalina: "Irisi, I just don't understand why you think Mark and Dani should change their belief or interpretation of the scripture! You are saying they shouldn't be trying to sway Deb's opinion, so why do you think she should be able to sway theirs?"

I don't know when I wrote that? Was it in another comments forum? I don't think anyone should change their personal beliefs.

In my book, I don't care who or what you believe in, as long as it doesn't involve nonconsenting parties. And if a religion says "keep pushing until the sinner gives up and accepts", then it is involving a nonconsenting party (the "sinner"), and yes, they should change that because that is NOT okay in my book.

Deb is NOT consenting to being constantly preached at by Dani, and has ASKED her to stop repeatedly. This is a nonconsensual situation and therefore I believe Dani, the AGGRESSOR, should stop out of respect for Deb.

Dani can think whatever the hell she wants to think about homosexuals, but right now she is crossing a boundary set by Deb, and that is innapropriate.



On a side note, I think you sound like an interesting and nice person with a level head on her shoulders. We may not agree religiously, but I think we could *certainly* have some interesting conversations.

The Rev. Dr. Kate said...

genexs - That the question isn't it? Does our level of "faith" make it so - for any of us? Whether we are blogger commentors or suicide bombers, there is criteria to meet beyond the "faith" standard before we can determine "truth." One of those standards for christians is "By your fruits you will know them." Suicide bombers reveal rather clearly the falsness of their beliefs when you add this criteria, as do blogger commentors.
And, just so you know, I didn't make up the definition I shared about the way "faith" is translated - it is simply the way the translation fails from Greek to English. When we start proof-texting at one another, it makes sense to understand the words and how they are actually used and what they mean in the language in which they were written.

Catch said...

OK..lets agree that Deb, Dani and Doug disagree. My suggestion would be that you none read each others blogs. This is rediculous....and Deb I have always enjoyed your blog. But this fighting over religion had got to stop. You do not have to defend yourself to Dani and Doug. You owe them nothing. Now lets get on with your humorous fun posts that we all enjoy! You are smarter than this Deb ~ and we all know it.

~Deb said...

Let’s face it though…In my opinion, how can you just turn into a whole different orientation just like that? I mean, ALL MY LIFE, I totally knew I was different…that I preferred girls…then women. I even went through the ‘guilt phase’ about it, which led me to prove that my destiny to be with men didn’t hold true. God doesn’t love me any less, just because I picked a wonderful person, of the same gender, who worships God too. It’s ridiculous for Dani and Mark to sit there and judge my relationship. Even if I were to date a man, they would judge that and tell me that I’m a “fornicating heterosexual”.

They want celibacy for all people who are not married.

How reasonable is that? And, if 90% of people have and are having premarital sex, then are we all going to hell?

Now, for Maxime, you sound like such an incredible girl. You’ve emailed me once and revealed a lot- thank you. But, it just doesn’t sound right, when I hear that a young girl like you, is moving overseas to live with Dani and her husband. Is she making you into her nanny to watch her kids? Is she going to pay you? I don’t get that whole set up. And then, to join ‘their church’.

What kind of church do you go to Dani, if I may ask?

I guess if Dani managed to changed one person, she can change others who are weak in their faith. And when I say “weak”, I mean, able to be changed easily.

Maxime, what happened from the last time you emailed me, which indicated that you thought Dani’s view were way off, till now? I saved the email. Can I resend it to you privately?

Anonymously Saying said...

The fact that some of your readers would rather have you write about humorous things tells me that they do not feel that this issue is important for the LGBT community. I’m guessing their heterosexual? Aside from that, Deb brings up topics that are real. It happens not only online, but it occurs in our everyday life. Deb points out the contradictions of all Christians who persuade others to join their “church”, which to me sounds exactly how Deb puts it, a cult.

Oh, and these pictures are so appropriate!

Keep writing what’s in your heart!

Dani said...

I'll let Maxime answer for herself and if she thinks I'm going to force her to be a nanny or change repent of her immorality because she is weak-minded. Of course you wouldn't get it, Deb - I don't expect you to. Maxime is more mature, wise and strong in her beliefs than you could ever dream to be.

But it really is tragic when a fellow "Christian" thinks it's brainwashing or cultish for me to encourage a young woman to stop sleeping around with men, honor God in her life and save herself until marriage. This is how corrupted that gay theology has become that now we must tolerate and accept all fornication, not just homosexual behavior.

Deb asked -"What kind of church do you go to Dani, if I may ask?"

I just wanted to say that it is a real breath of fresh air to be a part of a church that actually stands up for TRUTH and Righteousness!

At Denver Bible Church we learn that Jesus Christ is the standard, abortion is murder, the death penalty is good, sexual immorality is a sin, homosexuality is an abomination, public schools are evil, evolution is a lie, and atheists are fools.

It's so awesome to have fellowship with like-minded believers who know how to judge rightly and rebuke the wicked instead of trying to be nicer than God by tolerating sin and perversion to the point of nausea.

Thanks to our pastor, Bob Enyart for never compromising on God's Word and being bold enough to teach the whole Truth and nothing but the Truth. Our family is eternally grateful for the teachings of our church and we welcome folks like Maxime to be a part of the fellowship of REAL believers in Jesus Christ.

~Deb said...

”Maxime is more mature, wise and strong in her beliefs than you could ever dream to be.”

How strong can she be in her belief, when in fact, you’re the one who brainwashed her to travel OVERSEAS- not even knowing one another to join your church? And, Maxime was not sleeping around with men. She has a loving boyfriend who she was sharing intimacy with. Big difference, but you wouldn’t know that.

”At Denver Bible Church we learn that Jesus Christ is the standard, abortion is murder, the death penalty is good, sexual immorality is a sin, homosexuality is an abomination, public schools are evil, evolution is a lie, and atheists are fools.”

Nice church! I’m sure they’re just as “LOVING” as you are, Dani. Public schools are evil? You’re so pathetically brainwashed sweetie.

Isn’t there some sort of controversial topic regarding Bob Enyart? Hmmmmmmmmm……………… Someone’s bound to touch that subject sooner or later.

Enjoy your cult! Be well Dani, and live life to the fullest!

May there be peace within your compound!

Anonymously Saying said...

Oh Deb! Let me be the one to "expose" Dani's pastor, Bob Enyart!

Bob Enyart
Personal life
His first wife and fellow religious activist, Krista filed for divorce in 1989. While their marriage undoubtedly suffered from their arrests and jail time as a result of 'Operation Rescue', Enyart has claimed it ended due to his own struggles with sexual immorality and pornography. Krista agreed to give Enyart custody of their two boys. Enyarts second marriage would also end quickly in divorce.
During his TV show's nationwide run, Enyart married Cheryl Mayns, the ex-wife of a Jefferson County, Colorado sheriff's deputy. Enyart was charged in 1994 and ultimately convicted of misdemeanor child abuse in the striking of Mayns' son Steven (then age 7) with a belt, leaving bruises and welts on the boy's buttocks.
Enyart regained custody of his sons from his first marriage in 1999 after his ex-wife Krista died. They are involved with the design and operation of Enyart's websites. Enyart is currently the pastor of Denver Bible Church in Denver, Colorado.
Enyart is a self proclaimed right wing, religious fanatic, homophobic, anti-abortion. Enyart speaks his mind harshly, humorously and occasionally (and admittedly) disrespectfully where he deems appropriate. Enyart’s motto "Do right and risk the consequences" is indicative of his style of argument and evangelism, he prefers to speak what he believes to be truth, regardless of the possibility that he may offend, or worse.
He advocates for a Constitutional Monarchy under the leadership of a King, and would exclude a woman from becoming a regnant. In an article published in the Denver weekly newspaper Westword, Enyart said that "it's natural that men lead the household" and that households that are led by women turn out to be an "unhappy household." He also calls for the establishment of a criminal code under the Old Testament (or the Mosaic Law as Enyart likes to emphasize) as national law which includes the death penalty for offences such as homosexuality, murder, attempted murder, adultery and abortion.
Homosexuality was frequently singled out for criticism by Enyart, who sold T-shirts imprinted with the slogan "Homos Make Me Sick", and once played the song by the rock band Queen "Another One Bites the Dust" as the names of AIDS victims scrolled by on the screen.
Enyart criticizes even the most right-wing conservatives, citing rulings and/or behaviors indicative of liberalism. He has openly denounced and rebuked right-wingers such as Supreme court judge Samuel Alito and Dr. James Dobson for allegedly compromising on various conservative values and engaging in Legal Positivism.


Nice pastor to have your children learn by.

This lady, Dani, is bound by her controlling husband and is brainwashed by her pastor, husband and her church. IT IS A CULT!

MAXIME------DO YOU REALLY WANT THIS TYPE OF LIFE?

Poor girl.

Maxime said...

Sheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeesh! When did I become that poor girl??

Explain to me, what is so wrong with living a Godly life?

Take 2 said...

Everyone stop it!!!!!

GOSSIP, GOSSIP, GOSSIP....

Everything Jesus stands for is not what is going on in this blogging anymore.

Deb please stop the madness and ask Jesus to help you be the bigger person and blog the way you intended to blog!!!

Love ya girl.

Dana

PS Your straight, Jesus loving friend from CANADA (and I am also a dual citizen of the US)

Leesa said...

From one of the notes: "You dear are the SOS (samd old shit) everyday."

I would feel so proud if someone said that about me. Principles don't change, and obviously, since you have your principles and are living by them, you are unchanging. Lucky gal!

Enemy of the Republic said...

Deb,

I think you, me and Anonymously Saying need to do some serious martini drinking soon.

Your blog, dear, write what is close to your heart. I agree that it gets ugly here, but it is even uglier for gays who are subjected to hate crimes, often committed by those who think they represent God's judgment, but of course, not all. You know where I stand on this, and I am fortunate that I have simply agreed to disagree, even though my church does not support my position. I know that many individuals do, but I am not interested in a power takeover. Perhaps there are gay orientated people who wish to "change", aka, move into a heterosexual lifestyle. That, I believe, is choice. But it should not be demanded. God loves us all, be it hatemonger, cult follower and gays. However the first two are not orientation. I think of Matthew Shepard and my heart breaks. That was a death that didn't need to be. And yet Christ died for the murderers as well as the victim. Go figure.

~Deb said...

Maxime: It’s not Godly, if someone else is dictating your life, other than God Himself. Dani seems to be playing God for you. Why on earth would you drop everything to move overseas to join a church so full of hatred? It’s a cult sweetie- and you’re WAY too good for that! (Just my opinion.)

Take 2: I blog about the struggles of what the LGBT and any other discriminated bunch goes through. If you’re that offended, than please, “X” out of my blog. My faith is strong, and I need to let people know (LGBT as well as heterosexuals like Maxime) that a personal relationship with God is much more important than dictating cult leaders.

Leesa: You’re absolutely right!

Enemy: Thank you. And that’s just it. There are people who want to change their lifestyle, because they feel that it is wrong. There are people who want to “come out of the closet” too, because they feel that being straight was never in the cards for them. It’s up to God and that person to distinguish what’s best suited for that individual. xxoo

Catch said...

I do know this issue is important...but it will not be resolved like this. I enjoy Deb being Deb....not watching her defend herself to 2 people that we dont know anything about. I am a Christian too, but she doesnt have to explain herself to me. All this bickering and bullshit will not solve a thing. We all answer to one person...not to each other!

Maxime said...

Deb said:Maxime: It’s not Godly, if someone else is dictating your life, other than God Himself. Dani seems to be playing God for you. Why on earth would you drop everything to move overseas to join a church so full of hatred? It’s a cult sweetie- and you’re WAY too good for that! (Just my opinion.)

But God IS dictating my life! I've been planning on moving to the US for a while now, my Dad and other family also lives there. And well, I don't feel it's a church of hatred. Anyway, I think we should agree to disagree :)

Anonymously Saying said...

I don't feel that Deb is explaining herself, however, she is engaging in conversation (or debate) that will help the gay and lesbian community stand up to these bullies. Their message is hateful, intolerant and ignorant. There are posts that are light-hearted, but when someone tries to continually transform a gay person into a straight person, it's just wrong.

The amount of criticism and flak she has gotten from these so called Christians only fules more positive messages from Deb, to spread the word in the real type of love that it should be in. If she doesn’t do this, who will? There are hardly any blogs out there that defend our gay and lesbian brothers and sisters. We need someone full of ammunition of knowledge of the bible, like Deb has, and someone who is not afraid to stand strong in her faith.

Do you want her to submit as Maxime has done?

Deb? Do you want to head over to Denver and join Dani’s church and become a heterosexual?

STAND YOUR GROUND GIRL!

~Deb said...

Maxime: If GOD speaks to you on a personal level, without Dani getting in the way of your decision, then yes, God is speaking to you. But the church as anon. saying has said,

"Enyart likes to emphasize) as national law which includes the death penalty for offences such as homosexuality, murder, attempted murder, adultery and abortion."

Do you want all homosexuals to die? Is this a loving church?

Hmm, you may want to look into that a little further. Do you feel that your family members would take you in, instead of being in Dani's household? I'd opt for that if it were me.

Talk to God. Go by yourself, without any outside influences, and speak to Him.

What does "GOD" tell you? Don't focus on people. Focus on God. You're just too good for this. I really like you Maxime, and I'm also scared for you. Contact me anytime if you want to talk. Seriously.

Thank you Anonymously Saying! I appreciate that.

Anonymously Saying said...

Maxime, please read this!

Outspoken Denver, Colorado broadcaster, known as much for his ultraconservative fundamentalism as for his bluntness and rudeness (as well as some rather ill-advised actions) that reflect poorly on the Gospel of Jesus Christ. He prefers using the New King James Version, and refers to other versions disparagingly (e.g. "Reversed Standard Version" and "HIV version").

Enyart is a theonomist - someone who believes that Old Testament Law is as valid and applicable today as it was in Old Testament times. He is, therefore, a vocal death penalty proponent (who, like so many, uses long-refuted "arguments"). A portion of his novel, "The First Five Days -- The Rebirth of America" is available online It is a sickening fantasy of how "Christians" of Enyart's persuasion would govern America given the chance. Incidentally, though Enyart's book "The Plot" contains some 10,000 Scripture references, it appears he bases his views on his interpretation of 1 Timothy 1:8-10.

Enyart was, justifiably, listed on the late Hatewatch.org site for his outspoken hatred of homosexuals.

Enyart believes the best form of government is a "constitutional monarchy," and that democracy is the worst form of government. He is the lead spokesperson for ShadowGov.com.

Not surprisingly, Enyart's home church is Derby Bible Church in Colorado. Its pastors teach that God changes his mind, and does not know the future (Moral Government Theology).

See also: An Examination of Kingdom-Now, Dominion, and Latter-Rain Theology

In the opinion of the publisher of Apologetics Index, people like Mr. Enyart live like enemies of the cross and Gospel of Jesus Christ. Fortunately, Mr. Enyart's perverse version of Christianity is the exception, and not the norm.

Bob has openly stated on the air that in his ideal government for America, Homosexuals would be put to death, Adulterers would be put to death, and atheists would be put to death. Bob also runs a website called ShadowGov, which is a board promoting his views, and running a fantasy-government (sort of like Fantasy Football). Yep, Bob is such a crazy nut-job that his radio program regularly draws bigger audiences than Tom Snyder, PBS, and other competition. I attribute his ratings to pure SHOCK VALUE, rather than to people who actually think he's right. Like Bob Larson, Bob Enyart is on the lunatic fringe of the lunatic Fringe.


And you want to follow this type of mindset, Maxime?

Gary Baker said...

Mark, Dani, and Maxime,

As a believer that has proclaimed an unpopular belief on several websites, I would encourage you to end this quickly. IF you have a word to proclaim from God, then finish it and be done. I think you have made your thoughts very clear. Staying around is only likely to build anger on all sides, to the detriment of the Christ you claim. From the own words you list about your church, it sounds as though it is encouraging believers to take zeal for God and turn it into something hateful. I will pray for you and all your congregation.

Irisi said...

" Gary Baker said...

Mark, Dani, and Maxime,

As a believer that has proclaimed an unpopular belief on several websites, I would encourage you to end this quickly. IF you have a word to proclaim from God, then finish it and be done. I think you have made your thoughts very clear. Staying around is only likely to build anger on all sides, to the detriment of the Christ you claim. From the own words you list about your church, it sounds as though it is encouraging believers to take zeal for God and turn it into something hateful. I will pray for you and all your congregation."

::hugs gary::




Also, this church of Enyart sounds like a scary, scary thing..

I think I'm religioned-out from the intensity of these discussions :P

::hugs gary and sandalina once more for good measure:: Yay we agree on things guys!

::hugs everyone else, then wanders away to find lunch::

Jo said...

Abc’s of Faith = ACTION based on a BELIEF substantiated by a CONFIDENCE in God.

Deb,
From reading your blog, I can say that your actions, based on your beliefs, in YOUR confidence in God are strong and well thought out. I know that you have prayed and sought out guidance and understanding. I have no doubt that God will welcome you into his home and ask you to dine with the King of Kings.

I wish that Gods people would stop using Him word to justify their hatred. Sorry you have been hurt by those who deem it necessary to throw stones.

Kari said...

Sometimes, I think it is "just that easy". How else can the Bible say we need to have "faith like a child"? Children's faith is simple. It just is. Period.

Great post. I love the part about the Gods of each faith sitting together waiting for us and asking if we've figured it out yet. I've always wondered myself if they aren't actually the same god just with a different name (sort of how Santa Claus [for lack of a better example] has a different name in different regions of the world - he's still the same St. Nick).

Kari said...

Mark, Maybe you're familiar with Matthew 7:21-23 "Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven....Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity."

I would rather follow the verse that says "Love thy neighbor as thyself" which doesn't state to love only those that believe and think the same way you do.

genexs said...

Phew. You know things are devolving in Xtain rants when you start seeing all the "I'm going to pray for you" statements. Time to run for cover!

Rev Dr. Kate: Thanx again in regards to your comments on faith. True that the results of a extremist's faith ultimately point-up the their true nature. But I think that is small comfort for all the pain and suffering they wage. For me, "faith" is like the wind, sort of a force of nature. The wind can be very good, and bring nice weather, drive the climate on this earth, spread seeds, and all the other good things it does. On the other hand, it can also be destructive, flattening homes and bringing destruction. For me and my spiritual path, faith is best in small doses.

warm regards,
Gene

Kari said...

Said by Dani, "At Denver Bible Church we learn that Jesus Christ is the standard, abortion is murder, the death penalty is good, sexual immorality is a sin, homosexuality is an abomination, public schools are evil, evolution is a lie, and atheists are fools.

It's so awesome to have fellowship with like-minded believers who know how to judge rightly..."

First of all, how can you say that abortion is wrong, but the death penalty is right? If abortion is murder, shouldn't the death penalty be categorized the same way?" Do you feel that the death penalty is "warranted murder" because the person did committed a crime that perpetuated the death penalty? I'm surprised you don't consider both to murder. I'm thinking that's a double standard.

Secondly, you stated yourself that you are judging people. Just because you "think" you're right doesn't make it so.

Personally, Deb, I think you should start deleting each of the posts made by Dani and Mark from now on. It's your blog. You're entitled to your thoughts and feelings. You should be allowed to do that in peace. They have no right to tell you how to think or how to find your own answers.

You have my support!

Sometimes Saintly Nick said...

Regarding faith and fact, a wise man once said to me: “If they found Jesus’ body tomorrow, I’d still believe in his resurrection.”

Take 2 said...

Deb,

I am not offended far from it... I believe you misunderstand me.... it seems crazy to me that you keep responding and writing about 2 people when you have so much more to write about and many others, including myself enjoy your insights into life and love to read your thoughts.

That is all.... so with that said I will shut my mouth and not comment anymore. I just feel like it is redundant over and over the same stuff is being said with them and nothing is being accomplished but finger pointing and hurt feelings! That is all.

Blessings girl..... do what you feel you must. I certainly will not worry about it one way or the other.

Dana :-)

Gary Baker said...

Kari,

"First of all, how can you say that abortion is wrong, but the death penalty is right?"

From the perspective of a religious conservative: Many people seem to object to the death penalty referencing the "Do not kill" commandment. The analysis from my standpoint hinges on "what exactly does that 'kill' mean in context? Does it mean the taking of any human life?

If you look at the totality of the Bible, God mandated the death penalty for several offenses. Since God mandated it, then it seems illogical that it is immoral or ungodly. In fact, Old Testament law was very emphatic about killing anyone who murders. For 90+ percent of the children aborted, their only crime is an unwillingness of the mother to accept them. One of the things that makes me so incensed about the pro-abortion movement is that they are generally aligned with the groups that decry the death penalty. Spare the guilty and kill the innocent seems like a very poor stance to me indeed.

The Rev. Dr. Kate said...

Gene - I'll take as much faith as the Holy Sprite sends my way, but I reject absolutism in any form! But your point is well-taken!

Flip Flop Goddess said...

Oh Deb..I just love you..

I fin it hard to beileve that there are still people out there who feel if your gay Go doesnt love u and wants you to spend eternity in hell..

I mean get real..

We here on Earth, it is not our job to do the judging..

Mark said...

There are no differences between you and Mark. So, with that, I leave you with your brainwashing, bloodsucking blog, in hopes that people will see the true demon that you are. And yes, that is “my belief” about you. Peace!

Priceless!

Mark said...

but I reject absolutism in any form!

Dr. rev Kate, that is why you do not know God (at lest a much as you think you do), and reject His word, and think the Saints of the past can be improved upon. You dear are one arrogant pride filled woman.

~Deb said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
~Deb said...

Dani said on her blog:

”A.S. - Uber is right about my views about Bob and I am well aware of Enyart's antics and background, and have absolutely no problem whatsoever with any of what you just cut-and-pasted from Wikipedia. Nice try though.

You post these things and boldly highlight them as IF they were bad and somehow make him discreditable. NOPE - these are some of the very resons WHY we joined his church.

He advocates for a Constitutional Monarchy under the leadership of a King, and would exclude a woman from becoming a regnant. In an article published in the Denver weekly newspaper Westword, Enyart said that "it's natural that men lead the household" and that households that are led by women turn out to be an "unhappy household."

Right - cause it much MORE NAUTRAL to have a home lead by two lesbians who are suffering from depression!

Homosexuality was frequently singled out for criticism by Enyart, who sold T-shirts imprinted with the slogan "Homos Make Me Sick", and once played the song by the rock band Queen "Another One Bites the Dust" as the names of AIDS victims scrolled by on the screen.

LOL! Thanks for bringing this up - it's been a long time since he's done that, but I just busted out laughing! Homos Make Me Sick too -you have a problem with that?”


So what it was found in Wikipedia, the fact remains, that this Bob Enyart has a cult in Denver.
She makes fun of depression? What kind of woman is Dani?

First of all, I’m the one that suffers from depression from time to time Dani, not my partner. And I’m sure you must suffer from it too, being so bound and tired up by your husband that won’t let you do anything but be a housewife forcefully. Must be a sad life- I will pray for you.

She totally believes and LAUGHS over the fact that homosexuals should be killed for their loving relationships. “Homos make me sick too—you have a problem with that?” Nice loving "Christian" Dani is, huh?

No. It shows what an ugly woman you are- by character. My blog totally EXPOSED you. And to think, that’s the title of your blog.

When one wishes death upon another person, God sees it all. To me, you ARE Satan, and you can quote that all over the internet as many times as you want. In fact, I just may write a post called, “EXPOSE” and feature you and your cult. But, I’m not going to waste my time with a murderer like you. And that’s just what you are. You and Mark are complete murderers by believing in this evil “religion” or whatever you want to call what you practice, because it isn’t Christianity.

People see right through you. I’m sure the only friends you’ll have is at your church and of course, the Phelps’ family.

Enjoy your life here…on earth.

genexs said...

Let me see if I'm getting this right: their church is for LOL'ing at people dying of AIDS, wants to rip-up the Constitution, start a civil war, enslave women ala 'The Handmaid's Tale, and institute the death penalty for breaking the 10 commandments. Yet, it's people like us who are suppose to be destroying the country. Heh, it's times like this that I'm glad I'm Pagan.

Gary Baker said...

"Yet, it's people like us who are suppose to be destroying the country."

Prejudice comes in many different flavors and varies by location. A recent survey of college professors was conducted about religious viewpoints. The only religious groups that received substantially negative marks were Mormons and evangelical Christians. In other arenas, atheists are the most distrusted. And sadly, the radical fringes of any group are the most easily associated with mainstream.

Kari said...

Gary, I asked a simple question for clarification and as far as I am aware, your name is not Dani. You know, it doesn't really matter. I just deleted the majority of what I was going to say because this blog and these comments are getting WAY out of control and I am not going to contribute to it.

This blog belongs to Deb. PERIOD! and I refuse to be part of the problem by continuing to comment on things that aren't going to change anything.

You have your beliefs, I have mine, and Deb and everyone else has theirs. If you are so concerned that she learn the "truth" pray for her. Don't ridicule and harrass her. That's the quickest way to turn someone away from your side of anything.

Deb, enjoy your blog. I will continue to read and enjoy your blog and you have my FULL support, but I'm not going to read the comments (especially from this post) any longer. Hang in there. Your personal relationship to "God" or whatever you call your higher power is just that - personal - and no one has the right to tell you that you're wrong.

Val (Randi) said...

Honestly, Deb, leave her alone. Don't let her kind drive you bonkers. You're too good to read the perverted things she writes.

Like that "lady" who protests soldiers' funerals because America semi tolerates "the gays", all she wants is attention.

~Deb said...

Dani said...

"Deb's just jealous cause she'll NEVER ever be able to enjoy children of her own since her relationship with her "partner" is an unnatural perversion which doesn't allow her to become pregnant....short of being a turkey baster baby that is. ;>"

Ignorance is such bliss. I guess she's unaware that gays and lesbians can adopt a child that needs a home and other options, just as those heterosexuals who can't have babies too.

I'm starting to feel really bad for her actually. She's a tortured soul.

Mark said...

Your personal relationship to "God" or whatever you call your higher power is just that - personal - and no one has the right to tell you that you're wrong.

kari, says who? where is it that you get your right and wrong from? Your inner self? Child molestors and you have the same source I suspect, no? My personal god says beating my wife, killing others, cutting heads off of non believers, and flying planes into buildings in the name of my personal god are all ok! Chew on that ms relative speaking higher power blah blah blah. Are you related to the good dr rev kate by chance?

Hugs and kisses :)

Deb,
Don't forget our dinner date, and don't forget the lobster dear...:)

genexs said...

Heh, don't feel bad, these people are hysterical! Btw, any time you're taking donations for the 'turkey baster', count me in! I think you'd be a great mom.

atb,
Gene

~Deb said...

Hmm, turkey baster's are a great option, don't you think? I actually have a beautiful man who promised me his 'seed'. Even if he gets into a serious relationship, he has to tell her that he's donating to me, whenever I'm ready, but right now I'm very happy with no children.

Mark, I'd love to go out to dinner with you for some lobster, but God has saved me and I am SO allergic to shellfish! I never used to be allergic to it, but as I grew older, I started getting severe reactions from it. And go figure, my father used to own a fish market in South Street Seaport- we had shellfish all the time---the HEATHENS we were! But, thankfully the Lord has saved me Mark, and I can never eat that stuff again! ;)

Sushi?

Maxime said...

Deb, please be honest and also post your comment that you left at Dani's. I mean, it's your blog, but you should show people WHY she responded that way.. :) It's action & reaction. I hope someday the 2 of you can come to a peaceful debate though.

Gary Baker said...

Kari,

I thought you were asking a sincere question and not interested in bludgeoning people. My mistake.

Yes, the blog belongs to Deb, but an interesting thing happens when comments go out on the internet. Sometimes they become a conversation. When that happens, I don't think that any one member of the conversation can "own" that. Deb can decide when to end it, and which comments get through, but ideas have a way of expanding. Sometimes it's for the good. Sometimes not. Anyway, I'll probably hang around for a while until I feel the need to move on or until Deb tells me to go. Have a good one.

~Deb said...

Sure Maxime, the comment I wrote just before that one was this:

I quoted what Dani said first---

”'You sound like a jealous monkey who is foaming at the mouth over someone who took his banana cream pie and then throwing a fit after you slipped and fell on a banana peal while chasing after it.'

And I need to grow up?

How's the spawn of Satan doing in that belly of yours?”


*****************************
The comments I write are public, I don't write comments in private...it's impossible. Doesn't take a genius to figure that one out.

Maxime, face it, you’re heading into a cult. Read up on the characteristics of a cult. Google it.

~Deb said...

P.S. I usually don't delete comments, unless 1. they get lost or don't show up (I have one comment in que that I can't release for some reason from months ago), 2. the person either used extreme profanity to hurt someone or was just plain out ridiculous and rude.

I publish comments with profanity if it's used in a not so hurtful context, or to reveal someone's true character, but I really don't want this blog to resort to accepting that.

Even though we all have different views, I truly believe that Gary's comments weren't offensive, as those of Dani and Mark's. Gary and I have had debates over religious matters, and I respect his views, and he has his own thoughts...so I leave it be.

I'm off for the weekend, but I will be releasing comments here and there, (mostly in the mornings and at night).

My apologies to my readers for getting stressed out over this debate, and those of you who were offended. I think the best thing to do is let it go for now. If you want to continue commenting to one another, fine, but I will no longer be releasing Dani's comments any further at this point. You can visit her blog if you want to read more about hatred and her desire to kill homosexuals.

Enjoy your Memorial Weekend everyone!

Paul Champagne said...

I believe that a loving God, loves unconditionally, and if he doesn't, who needs him anyway.

SpongyBones said...

Hi you don't know me, I came over here from Enemy and my sisters blog (Jo), but I had to stop by and say ...

I read a post over at Danis blog ... my God all I can say is thank God there are folks like you, my sister and Enemy to show the world that Jesus isn't full of hate. Next to the wonderful Fred Phelps, that's some of the most hateful things I have ever seen put into print. Makes me sick that people like that use Gods word to justify their hatred in other people.

I admit, I had a hard time when my sister told me she was gay. But I know how she struggled not to be ... because of the way that we were brought up. For the life of me I cannot imagine why anyone would CHOOSE to be gay. You all go through some hard stuff just living under the laws of our nation. Then to have to deal with the hate of people like Dani and her fellow "come out of the closet" homophobes!

Good God! Nobody would CHOOSE that abuse. I think you all were born gay, just as I was born the way I am.

Please know Deb (not that you need my justification) that there are people out here that support you and recognizes that your love for Jesus is real and accepted by Him.

Why do you guys even bother clicking on that awful page. I say to let her live in her own misery ... you guys are too good for that shit.

Dani Kekoa said...

As nearly 5 years have passed I am... Setting the Record Straight: An Open Apology to “Lesbian” Deb & Public Repentance for Following Bob Enyart

http://worstgenerationseed.blogspot.com/2012/02/setting-record-straight-open-apology-to.html